5th Edition Questions:, Let's hear some speculation! Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[AKWeaponsSpecial...]

I'm extremely excited about this edition, and everything I see and hear just makes me more so! And yet, I'm hearing very little speculation from my fellow dumpshockers, which has me surprised.
SO! I'm gonna toss out a few questions to see what everyone thinks.
1) How large of a jump will the setting take? Will it be 10 years? 20? 100?
2) How much will the mana level have risen? Will mages and adepts become more common?
3) What's gonna happen to the tech? Will lasers (including electrolaser and burst lasers) become more than just an ares pipe-dream? Will batteries become more efficient?
4) What new magics will become possible? Short-range teleportation Dishonored style? Preparing a weapon so it can be summoned?
5) Will there be any significant advances in Enchanting? Significant magitech improvements?

What say you?

[Pepsi Jedi]

1) How large of a jump will the setting take? Will it be 10 years? 20? 100?
2) How much will the mana level have risen? Will mages and adepts become more common?
3) What's gonna happen to the tech? Will lasers (including electrolaser and burst lasers) become more than just an ares pipe-dream? Will batteries become more efficient?
4) What new magics will become possible? Short-range teleportation Dishonored style? Preparing a weapon so it can be summoned?
5) Will there be any significant advances in Enchanting? Significant magitech improvements?

I'd gone through and started to reply to your queries point by point but I kept referencing my first answer.

1) I don't think the setting is going to "Jump' that much. I think it's going to be 2075 to 2076 or so. A year at most. I think the update is mechancis and alot of stuff happening around the world. Not a radical leap forward. This would mean the mana levels are more or less the same, mages and adepts are more or less the same. The Tech is more or less the same. There might be some new stuff ((Spells, guns etc)) That roll out but no paradigm changing things. No pulse rifles and light sabers. (and the Jedi in me really wants a light saber in SR). Magic might find new ways to be, sort of like Technomancers popped up in Emergence. but not change as a whole.

I think there's something going on with the Infected. Their 'sickness' is getting worse. Weither that's a 'natural evolution' of the HMHVV, or someone did something to it and it's spreading is up in the air. They seem to be becoming more feral and intensified allergies to sunlight and their hunger getting stronger. But I don't think that means suddenly magic or stuff is bigger/different all the sudden.

[Dakka Dakka]

No pulse rifles and light sabers. (and the Jedi in me really wants a light saber in SR).

A light saber is one of the weirdest pieces of sci-fi equipment I have ever seen. It is capable of creating an energy cylinder of variable length that cuts through anything. Why would you limit such an item to the length of a sword?
Now a force/magic weapon would be interesting.

I think there's something going on with the Infected. Their 'sickness' is getting worse. Weither that's a 'natural evolution' of the HMHVV, or someone did something to it and it's spreading is up in the air. They seem to be becoming more feral and intensified allergies to sunlight and their hunger getting stronger. But I don't think that means suddenly magic or stuff is bigger/different all the sudden.

Where did you get that?

[bannockburn]

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=38247

For all the speculation ^^

[Ixal]

1. 2075 so no time jump at all (or just 1 year).
2. Won't change at all unless Catalyst wants to introduce new magic toys.
3. No (especially as Ares has hit hard times) unless, like in 2 Catalyst wants new guns.
4. Teleportation is a big NO in SR lore and do not mention that video game again...
In a Jackpoint entry there is some talk about possession/mind control by mages.
5. Same as 2 and 3, if Catalyst wants it...

About HMHVV, see the hidden story bannockburn posted (Sleeping with the Enemy I think).

[Lionhearted]

A light saber is one of the weirdest pieces of sci-fi equipment I have ever seen. It is capable of creating an energy cylinder of variable length that cuts through anything. Why would you limit such an item to the length of a sword?

The canon technobabble is even weirder appearantly the blade is a jet of superheated plasma contained by a force field, how this force field doesn't get in the way of you cutting stuff beats me. The blade is also weightless which means force users are the only ones that can effectively use the blade without risking limbs, they can sense it you know...
Lightsabers... Very much governed by rule of cool.

[Prime Mover]

I know the matrix is getting its normal edition overhaul and mechanics are getting its edition tweak with limits but I'm still looking for other important things to be addressed.
1. Any changes to max caps on attribute/armor?
2. Any changes to how armor works?
3. Rigger rules clean up?
4. Drain codes for spells cleaned up?
5. Stick and shock and injection weapons clarified?
6. Someone please give us closer on Tempo storyline, seeing as how we its been mentioned several times and we even have stats on the spirits involved
7. Explosive rules overhaul?

[taeksosin]

Would be nice to see riggers get some love. Bringing back build your own vehicle/drone rules would be awesome.

[KarmaInferno]

Cargo capacity rules, please!

Streamlining rules is all well and good but 4E took some things too far.


-k

[Lionhearted]

I kinda agree there, it's one thing to leave something out completely, but if you provide some rules you should give enough support to make them useable, hello parachuting!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I kinda agree there, it's one thing to leave something out completely, but if you provide some rules you should give enough support to make them useable, hello parachuting!

Parachuting is useful... Used the rules on it a fair number of times, actually. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lionhearted]

What rules?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

What rules?

Looking...
Well, Arsenal has the Equipment, and the Main has the Skill. Interesting...

We used:
Threshold Difficulty...
Easy 1
Average 2
Hard 3
Extreme 5

Apparently our primary GM used best judgement. Can't seem to find a table in Arsenal like I thought. Ooops, apologies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Looks like he used the Piloting Difficulties as a basis...

[Lionhearted]

Tis a bother seperating RAW from house rules sometimes, especially when they're so ingrained that you can't remember the original rule (or lack thereof) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[X-Kalibur]

The canon technobabble is even weirder appearantly the blade is a jet of superheated plasma contained by a force field, how this force field doesn't get in the way of you cutting stuff beats me. The blade is also weightless which means force users are the only ones that can effectively use the blade without risking limbs, they can sense it you know...
Lightsabers... Very much governed by rule of cool.

Even worse, depending on the particular source material, they vibrate so much that only someone using the force can even really wield one... despite us seeing Han use one in ESB to slice open a tauntaun without trouble.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Tis a bother seperating RAW from house rules sometimes, especially when they're so ingrained that you can't remember the original rule (or lack thereof) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Definitely not written down somewhere... but I think the table he used is pretty reasonable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Pepsi Jedi]

Even worse, depending on the particular source material, they vibrate so much that only someone using the force can even really wield one... despite us seeing Han use one in ESB to slice open a tauntaun without trouble.

Just point of reference it's not that those with out the force can't use them. (( Nor any sort of vibration thing)) It's the weightless nature of the blade that makes them 'difficult' to use. You're using muscle control to swing and spin a 'weightless' blade that meets little to no resistance unless it contacts another energy blade or one of the few (( 4 or 5)) Materials that are resistant to them. The fact that that 'weightless' blade can cut you in half if you mess up, is the 'danger' factor. I.E. if you pick up a flash light and turn it on and swing it around. No big deal. You mess up with a light saber and suddenly you've accidentally cut yourself in half. Yes. Han used one, for about 3 seconds. Non Force users "Can" use them. It's the usage of the force that allows for the pinpoint accuracy of blade placement and the enhanced agility that allows for it that makes it 'safer' for a 'trained' force user to use them.

Some non force users have been trained to use them. The margin of error is just very narrow and the learning curve.... lol incredibly steep. 'Oops, I knicked myself' With a light saber means you're missing a limb or head.

[Bigity]

No, the correct answer is anyone can use them with training.

Only force users can power up 'Lightsaber Combat' power and keep it going.

[Pepsi Jedi]

No, the correct answer is anyone can use them with training.

Only force users can power up 'Lightsaber Combat' power and keep it going.

Um... is that different from what I said, in a meaningful way?

[kzt]

What say you?

Here's mine:

Computer rules will again be an unusable mess based on the traditional combination of TRON worship and Gibson worship, combined with people who really have no idea how computer work trying to make them "more realistic".

The rules as written will have at least two huge gaping holes in the mechanics that would have been obviously found with semi-competent playtesting. For example, the SR4 1st edition unlimited remote services.

The rules will again encourage everyone to be magically active, but the designers will pretend that being a mage is not the obvious thing for all players to choose. And if you do become a mage you'll rapidly blow by everyone who chooses another path.

Combat rules will again be written by someone who has pretty obviously never fired a gun or seriously trained in any sort of combat skill of any kind, having learned everything they know from comics and bad movies.

It will take at least two years for them to release the errata and corrections to the rules needed to make the game playable.

[RHat]

I'm extremely excited about this edition, and everything I see and hear just makes me more so! And yet, I'm hearing very little speculation from my fellow dumpshockers, which has me surprised.
SO! I'm gonna toss out a few questions to see what everyone thinks.
1) How large of a jump will the setting take? Will it be 10 years? 20? 100?
2) How much will the mana level have risen? Will mages and adepts become more common?
3) What's gonna happen to the tech? Will lasers (including electrolaser and burst lasers) become more than just an ares pipe-dream? Will batteries become more efficient?
4) What new magics will become possible? Short-range teleportation Dishonored style? Preparing a weapon so it can be summoned?
5) Will there be any significant advances in Enchanting? Significant magitech improvements?

What say you?

Based on what we've seen so far:

1) It won't, or at least it will be very minimal. The first module released will probably cover the time between Storm Front and the start of the new edition.
2) Won't. It's been confirmed by writers that the changes with the Infected don't have to do with a rising mana level, which is the only reason we had to expect one.
3) Tech level can't advance too much. Projectile weapons will still rule the day, but some of the "advanced technology" seen in later supplements might make its way into core. Nanotech and such may become more common, and core.
4) Basic rules of magic will almost certainly stay the same.
5) No indication of such a thing.

As for the Matrix rules: due to their becoming parallel to other rules, they'll probably be much easier for people to get. Looks like they're approaching them from a design first perspective, as well they should.

[Bigity]

Um... is that different from what I said, in a meaningful way?

My way is the D6 way.

So, yes.

[X-Kalibur]

Just point of reference it's not that those with out the force can't use them. (( Nor any sort of vibration thing)) It's the weightless nature of the blade that makes them 'difficult' to use. You're using muscle control to swing and spin a 'weightless' blade that meets little to no resistance unless it contacts another energy blade or one of the few (( 4 or 5)) Materials that are resistant to them. The fact that that 'weightless' blade can cut you in half if you mess up, is the 'danger' factor. I.E. if you pick up a flash light and turn it on and swing it around. No big deal. You mess up with a light saber and suddenly you've accidentally cut yourself in half. Yes. Han used one, for about 3 seconds. Non Force users "Can" use them. It's the usage of the force that allows for the pinpoint accuracy of blade placement and the enhanced agility that allows for it that makes it 'safer' for a 'trained' force user to use them.

Some non force users have been trained to use them. The margin of error is just very narrow and the learning curve.... lol incredibly steep. 'Oops, I knicked myself' With a light saber means you're missing a limb or head.

The weapon consisted of a blade of pure plasma emitted from the hilt and suspended in a force containment field. The field contained the immense heat of the plasma, protecting the wielder, and allowed the blade to keep its shape. The hilt was almost always self-fabricated by the wielder to match his or her specific needs, preferences and style. Due to the weightlessness of plasma and the strong gyroscopic effect generated by it, lightsabers required a great deal of strength and dexterity to wield, and it was extremely difficult—and dangerous—for the untrained to attempt using. However, in the hands of an expert of the Force, the lightsaber was a weapon to be greatly respected and feared. To wield a lightsaber was to demonstrate incredible skill and confidence, as well as masterful dexterity and attunement to the Force.

Bold emphasis mine. D6 system did it the best though (awww, poor WEG) anyone could train the skill to use it in combat, but only Jedi could use it to block and deflect blaster bolts.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Bold emphasis mine. D6 system did it the best though (awww, poor WEG) anyone could train the skill to use it in combat, but only Jedi could use it to block and deflect blaster bolts.

I was pointing out that it wasn't any of the things that said people with out the benifit of the Force, were unable to use them.

I.E. That they were difficult to use for a number of reasons, but not impossible for people with out the ability to manipulate the force, to use. Yes there is a 'gyroscopic' effect, but it's never really explained as to what it means in logistical physics or usage. And the movies, the 'highest canon' for SW don't show or reference the Gyroscopic effect at all. That's all EU, and even EU Doesn't really say what it is, other than it's there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The end point being "Non force users CAN use light sabers. They're just difficult and dangerous."

Not trying to nitpick but a "Gyroscopic" effect is different from 'vibration' as well.

Doesn't really pertain to Shadowrun though. In truth, as much as I love Light Sabers. I can live with out them in SR.

[Umidori]

Dumpshock - Come For The Shadowrun Discussion, Stay For The Star Wars Arguments!

~Umi