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[Raiden]

hey, I will probably be starting a new campaign soon and wanted to try my hand at a mage since my other characters were gun-ho kung-fu fighters. any general advice on mages? 750karmagen. chaX2 contacts. I have two ideas atm but I am open to others, first one was an elf cha/will based mage, in a popular rock band and uses his magic a lot to add special effects and give the crowd that special oomph that other bands seem to never have I mean a little manipulation spell never hurt anyone right? the other is more down to earth, a mage detective of sorts have not considered what made him get into the shadows just yet but the concept struck me as niffty. I want to be able to do some running and other athletic things with them but focus mostly on being a mojo slinger. and any advice on not dieing to "geek the mage" tactics from enemy if things go down is nice.

[Rubic]

First thing's first, your concepts seem rather solid. I'm a fan of Elf/Cha-tradition casters (particularly black magic). The strength here will be in summoning and binding spirits, but the inflated drain soak isn't exactly bad for spellcasting, either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I am trying to stretch myself into other casting-type areas, but I also love to go without cyberware, while others might suggest minimal amounts to improve your spellcasting capabilities (Cybereyes for longer-range spellcasting/additional visual spectra. SuRGE is a good boost to this (Metagenetic Improvement: Charisma), as is a moderately-priced sustaining focus (for "Increase [Attribute]: Charisma"), Empathy Software (buy at Rating 6, transfer to a better 'link after start* or else buy R6 glasses/goggles/camera and load it directly on them).

As for an investigator... the possibilities are endless (you typically want to focus on Intuition or Logic, and otherwise just be all snooping and stuff).

Advice for not being "geeked" first? Troll/Orc are always tough, dwarves as well. High Rea/Int will keep your initiative up. You can try one of the tricks I pulled, which is to be a "back-line" mage, and focus on keeping your allies buffed up with Improved Reflexes, Armor spells, and stat boosts. Let them take the big risks while you stay safe behind cover... for now... There's also the "always have an escape plan" option, which is a personal choice of how you want to ditch when everything gets too hot. Animal transformations, Shape [Element], clutch spirit summoning/use, lots of explosives, illusion spells, mind control (a bit of a social faux pas, but dead people have a harder time getting back into the good graces of other people), what have you. Take your pick, and then take your pick again and again until you're happy with your options. Also, wear armor and keep a side arm so you can make them think you're NOT a mage (don't rely on magic for EVERYTHING).

* Std character gen restricts availability to 12 or less, a rating 6 Response on a commlink is availability 16.

[Raiden]

thanks for the reply, also I was wondering what mentor spirits would be suggested for investigator, I like dog, wise warrior, sky father, and a few others almost fit. any in game exp with any of the named ones?

[Glyph]

Improved reflexes gives you extra initiative passes, which can be used defensively. Combat sense or deflect are better than armor, both because dodging completely is better than soaking damage, and because they are not a field of glowing energy that draws attention (and enemy fire) to you. Improved invisibility is even better - but remember that some enemies will have multiple senses/sensors, so it is not 100% effective. Levitate, in addition to being a good overall utility spell, is great for mobility, meaning getting the heck out of there in a hurry. Be careful not to fly up in an open area where you are making an obvious target of yourself. Finally, one other way to avoid the dangers of combat (Rubic mentioned being a support/buff mage) is to summon spirits and have them do the fighting for you.

The good thing about 750 karmagen is that you will be able to make a strong mage, and still have enough karma left to branch out a bit, skill-wise.

[Raiden]

also what are the thoughts about taking the spell heal? I am still restricted to the spells x2 rating of spell-casting, (12) atm I have combat: fireball (limited) stunball (limited) and stunbolt. detection: detect magic, mind probe, and detect individual. health: heal and increase reflexes (plus sustaining foci). illusion: stealth, Imprvd. invisibility and chaotic world. Manipulation: deflection (complete with another sustaining foci). now. any advice on this list? remember this is for the detective/investigator. also I am allowed one initiation grade, atm I took a 7 magic and grabbed centering. should I drop magic down to 6 and grab a few more skills or keep it at 7? also what would a good tradition be? I am having a hard time finding one that fits the character forming in my head. I may make one and post it if I cant find one to my liking. I can only get an armor of Ballistics:10 Impact:8 without being detrimental as of now. Is that good, bad, or average? I am putting a good bit of time into this guy and I do not want him getting offed withing 2-3 sessions lol. and as for combat this guy may have a spirit help him but he is more of the in the heat of it guy. mainly he uses spirits to help find guys, locate item, guard people places, or things and the like. this may change though as nothing is set in stone fully for the concept.

EDIT: on another note this guy isn't the charming talk it out of them guy, he gets the job done. IE-mind probe. (though unless hostile he usually does try to talk it out of them. though seems likely to fail miserably at this moment) also I am tottering back and forth from human to ork and ork to human .-.

[Rubic]

also what are the thoughts about taking the spell heal? I am still restricted to the spells x2 rating of spell-casting, (12) atm I have combat: fireball (limited) stunball (limited) and stunbolt. detection: detect magic, mind probe, and detect individual. health: heal and increase reflexes (plus sustaining foci). illusion: stealth, Imprvd. invisibility and chaotic world. Manipulation: deflection (complete with another sustaining foci). now. any advice on this list? remember this is for the detective/investigator. also I am allowed one initiation grade, atm I took a 7 magic and grabbed centering. should I drop magic down to 6 and grab a few more skills or keep it at 7? also what would a good tradition be? I am having a hard time finding one that fits the character forming in my head. I may make one and post it if I cant find one to my liking. I can only get an armor of Ballistics:10 Impact:8 without being detrimental as of now. Is that good, bad, or average? I am putting a good bit of time into this guy and I do not want him getting offed withing 2-3 sessions lol. and as for combat this guy may have a spirit help him but he is more of the in the heat of it guy. mainly he uses spirits to help find guys, locate item, guard people places, or things and the like. this may change though as nothing is set in stone fully for the concept.

EDIT: on another note this guy isn't the charming talk it out of them guy, he gets the job done. IE-mind probe. (though unless hostile he usually does try to talk it out of them. though seems likely to fail miserably at this moment) also I am tottering back and forth from human to ork and ork to human .-.

Heal spell is ALWAYS recommended, unless you have a specific reason not to. I've had other players and my GM get upset at me for not taking it before, but these were on character concepts specifically excluding the spell for character and player reasons. I like to consider myself a reasonable person, but you can only hear the term "heal bitch" so many times before you have to make a statement. Frankly, though, I liked HuLi. She was powerful, effective, very capable in support when we weren't just randomly thrown into a situation without any recon first, somewhat capable support without recon, and tactically sufficient in combat between spells and spirits. GAWD I loved that huge soak pool.

[Bearclaw]

Yea, heal is a must have. Probably the only MUST have.

Also, I recommend NOT getting a sustaining focus. With the restrictions on them and the cost, you can better offset the penalties of sustaining a force 4 improved charisma spell by getting a rating 2 power focus than a rating 4 sustaining focus. YMMV.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yea, heal is a must have. Probably the only MUST have.

Also, I recommend NOT getting a sustaining focus. With the restrictions on them and the cost, you can better offset the penalties of sustaining a force 4 improved charisma spell by getting a rating 2 power focus than a rating 4 sustaining focus. YMMV.

Ummm... What?

[Bearclaw]

Yea, nevermind.
The theory holds for increased initiative, but not increased CHA. In combat most of a mages rolls involve his magic stat, so you can make up the penalty, rather than trying to avoid it. Increased CHA has lots of uses outside of combat, so it's better to have a sustaining focus for it.
Sorry, got confused.

[Bearclaw]

With unlimited resources of course, you'd love to be able to have sustaining foci for everything (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[RHat]

Yea, nevermind.
The theory holds for increased initiative, but not increased CHA. In combat most of a mages rolls involve his magic stat, so you can make up the penalty, rather than trying to avoid it. Increased CHA has lots of uses outside of combat, so it's better to have a sustaining focus for it.
Sorry, got confused.

You're going to have to provide some further detail on that...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yea, nevermind.
The theory holds for increased initiative, but not increased CHA. In combat most of a mages rolls involve his magic stat, so you can make up the penalty, rather than trying to avoid it. Increased CHA has lots of uses outside of combat, so it's better to have a sustaining focus for it.
Sorry, got confused.

Trust me on this, You cannot make up for Sustaining Penalties by just getting a higher rated Power Focus.
It may work for one or two things, but Sustaining Foci are there for a reason. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bearclaw]

Can't. AFB at the moment. It came from a table discussion. The result was something along to lines of "since the spell force is limited to the rating of the sustaining foci, but the penalty is always -2, in many cases it's more efficient to get a smaller power focus to offset the penalty then to get a sustaining focus to avoid it. Also, when not sustaining, the power focus adds to everything you do magically."

But again, this was specifically about initiative enhancement, and it really did work out for the character in question.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Can't. AFB at the moment. It came from a table discussion. The result was something along to lines of "since the spell force is limited to the rating of the sustaining foci, but the penalty is always -2, in many cases it's more efficient to get a smaller power focus to offset the penalty then to get a sustaining focus to avoid it. Also, when not sustaining, the power focus adds to everything you do magically."

But again, this was specifically about initiative enhancement, and it really did work out for the character in question.

You cannot use a Power Focus to sustain a spell. So there is never a time where the Power Focus is sustaining, since it is always "Not Sustaining." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[RHat]

Given that Power and Sustaining Foci are not mutually exclusive, the whole point doesn't really work.

[Raiden]

I think he is saying the power focus cancels out any dice penalty due to sustaining when using magic for all others it won't IMO I'll pick up a sustaining focus or two. Since a r2 power focus costs more then a R3 sustaining focus. One spell the afore mentioned method seems to work well with statisticly speaking is deflection spl

[Bearclaw]

Yea. Sorry. I didn't think anything else made sense, so I didn't mention it.
I know the difference between a power focus and a sustaining focus thank you very much.

[RHat]

Seeing as most of my mage builds have an R4 Power Focus in ADDITION to a couple of Sustaining Foci, I still don't quite get your point. They're expensive, but powerful.

[Bearclaw]

You cannot use a Power Focus to sustain a spell. So there is never a time where the Power Focus is sustaining, since it is always "Not Sustaining." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That actually kind of hurt my feelings.

[Bearclaw]

Seeing as most of my mage builds have an R4 Power Focus in ADDITION to a couple of Sustaining Foci, I still don't quite get your point. They're expensive, but powerful.

So you take multiple restricted gear?

[RHat]

Just one - I usually keep the Sustaining Foci at R3, occasionally with plans to get some higher rating ones as soon as I can.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That actually kind of hurt my feelings.

Not sure why, but sorry about that. Looked like you were saying a Power Focus could be used for Sustaining.

Also, when not sustaining, the power focus adds to everything you do magically

That is exactly how it read.

[Bearclaw]

Just one - I usually keep the Sustaining Foci at R3, occasionally with plans to get some higher rating ones as soon as I can.

Which I think was the point of the discussion we were having at my table. It takes a r4 sustaining focus to sustain improved initiative +3. Or you can use a rating 2 power focus to offset the -2 penalty.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Which I think was the point of the discussion we were having at my table. It takes a r4 sustaining focus to sustain improved initiative +3. Or you can use a rating 2 power focus to offset the -2 penalty.

Or you can be happy with a Rating 3 Sustaining Focus for the 3 IP you will get from the spell and have no penalty. You do not need 4IP for a Mage, ever. *shrug*

And besides, you are STILL suffering the sustaining penalty as compared to not sustaining the spell at all. Even with a R4 Power Focus, which now acts as only a R2 Power Focus becasue you lost 2 DP for the sustained Spell. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bearclaw]

The list of things you don't NEED is very long, but I don't think it EVER includes extra initiative passes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)