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> Ares Excalibur, It. Makes. No. Sense. Unless...
Charon
post Jun 10 2013, 10:01 PM
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SR5 is around the corner, so I'm back again, as I have been for every new editions!

I completed my collection (350$ in the past few weeks, it's good to no longer be a student!) and I am reading Storm Front. I like a lot of the fluff, but my attention was drawn to the Ares section.

All right, I think I will be able to make a running gag in my next campaign out of the Ares Excalibur, so right there the writers did not waste their time!

But it's not clear to me how such a fiasco is even possible. I can accept that whoever was in charge of developing the Excalibur is a moron who produced a complete dud. That happens all the time. But why didn't his superior scrap the project when he saw it was going nowhere during any of the dozens of progress reports he would have received? But, hey, let's assume that every single person in the chain of command of AresArms between Project Exaclibur and whoever is in charge of the division is a complete boob. Fine. But how the hell did they get AresMedia (or whatever the media division is called) to participate in a moronic and doomed coverup?

This is too big, it crosses division, so it has to involve Damien Knight. It implies that the CEO himself decided that he had sunk too much money in the Excalibur project and needed to recoup as much of the loss as he could. As a result, he ordered all his media outlets to outright lie, fabricate some stories and bury others, knowing full well this would be DEVASTATING to the Ares brand, costing billions in the long term, but he was too strapped for cash in the short term to care.

But that brings the question of how much money can you possibly sink in the development of a freaking rifle anyway that you can't afford to scrap the project? Compared to, say, how much money Ares invest to develop SPACE CRAFTS! It can't even be in the same order of magnitude. You'd think the Ares Excalibur development project is just a drop in the bucket for a corporation who must have budgeted the fact that not 100% of projects in development were going to pan out. And how much money are you going to recoup anyways by manipulating reviews and markets enough so that the first two weeks of sales are good before the abysmal performance of the product inevitably catch up with you? It's a rifle, not a Hollywood Blockbuster!

This. Makes. No. Sense.

Damien has to have already lost control of his corporation. For example, maybe he has been invested by an insect spirit and the hive queen has a plan that requires Ares to self destruct. That's all I can see because human incompetence can only explain so much.
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bannockburn
post Jun 10 2013, 10:17 PM
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Not to cut you off, but this has been noted in a 43 pages monster of a thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
It wasn't pretty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Charon
post Jun 10 2013, 10:21 PM
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QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jun 10 2013, 05:17 PM) *
Not to cut you off, but this has been noted in a 43 pages monster of a thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
It wasn't pretty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)



Err... Where in the thread? Because I like Shadowrun, but not quite to the point of reading a 43 page thread from the start for the fun of it!
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hermit
post Jun 10 2013, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE
This. Makes. No. Sense.

It has all been said and done in the Stormfront review thread. However, you are, of course, fully right.
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bannockburn
post Jun 10 2013, 10:36 PM
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Here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...p;#entry1216094

And here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...p;#entry1212850

It goes on for a while from there.
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Charon
post Jun 10 2013, 10:37 PM
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QUOTE
It has all been said and done in the Stormfront review thread. However, you are, of course, fully right.




Okay, so was the consensus: 'The bugs got Damien' or 'The Writers don't understand squat about business!'?
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Charon
post Jun 10 2013, 10:37 PM
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QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jun 10 2013, 05:36 PM) *


Ah, thanks.
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kzt
post Jun 10 2013, 10:41 PM
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People that get paid to write or edit this stuff have not the faintest idea of how the real world works. Like the fact that the entire firearms industry in the US is really small potatoes compared to most any other industrial sector in the US that Ares is supposed to be involved in. Like automobiles. Or commercial aircraft.

It's another product showing the same careful writing and research that went into Bogota!
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hermit
post Jun 10 2013, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE
Like the fact that the entire firearms industry in the US is really small potatoes compared to most any other industrial sector in the US that Ares is supposed to be involved in. Like automobiles. Or commercial aircraft.

Yes, indeed. Even big defense contracts pale against some other fields Ares dabbles in.

QUOTE
It's another product showing the same careful writing and research that went into Bogota!

To be fair, some parts were better than others. Some parts though ... *shakes head*
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Shinobi Killfist
post Jun 11 2013, 01:46 AM
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QUOTE (Charon @ Jun 10 2013, 05:37 PM) *
Okay, so was the consensus: 'The bugs got Damien' or 'The Writers don't understand squat about business!'?


My thought was someone here has an issue with Ares. They don't like Tony Stark, they don't like the gun image, they don't like its associated with America image or whatever but it really seems like a writer there has a mad on against Ares. I'd be down with them getting nuked from orbit or something but all the plot lines seem to revolve around Ares being run by the dumbest people on earth.
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kzt
post Jun 11 2013, 07:50 AM
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So then this is going to be be a kind of boring but yet stupid plot? In keeping with the Bogota! theme, I therefore suggest the next big plot to undermine Ares involve sabotaging the Ares Pipeline International Surfing Competition run in Detroit every July.
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DMiller
post Jun 11 2013, 08:41 AM
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QUOTE (kzt @ Jun 11 2013, 04:50 PM) *
So then this is going to be be a kind of boring but yet stupid plot? In keeping with the Bogota! theme, I therefore suggest the next big plot to undermine Ares involve sabotaging the Ares Pipeline International Surfing Competition run in Detroit every July.

Awe man, but I love watching that competition from the North Sea docks... Ah well, guess it's off to Hawai'i for some snow skiing.
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hermit
post Jun 11 2013, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE
My thought was someone here has an issue with Ares. They don't like Tony Stark, they don't like the gun image, they don't like its associated with America image or whatever but it really seems like a writer there has a mad on against Ares. I'd be down with them getting nuked from orbit or something but all the plot lines seem to revolve around Ares being run by the dumbest people on earth.

My thought was (after someone notified me of the similarities to iPhone problems) someone has a problem with Apple Computers and vented his revenge fantasies on Ares.

QUOTE
So then this is going to be be a kind of boring but yet stupid plot? In keeping with the Bogota! theme, I therefore suggest the next big plot to undermine Ares involve sabotaging the Ares Pipeline International Surfing Competition run in Detroit every July.

And putting images of butts into their spots aired during the Super Brawl 2075. That'll just annihilate them.
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Backgammon
post Jun 11 2013, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE (Charon @ Jun 10 2013, 06:01 PM) *
SR5 is around the corner, so I'm back again, as I have been for every new editions!

I completed my collection (350$ in the past few weeks, it's good to no longer be a student!)


Did you get Montreal 2074? You know you want to.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Charon
post Jun 11 2013, 03:48 PM
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QUOTE (Backgammon @ Jun 11 2013, 08:09 AM) *
Did you get Montreal 2074? You know you want to.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


I don't buy PDF, but if I see it at my store, I nab it for sure. I am not sure they publish short leaflets like this, though. They should, I have all the Aeon Trinity Leaflets.
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Wakshaani
post Jun 11 2013, 03:56 PM
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QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Jun 10 2013, 07:46 PM) *
My thought was someone here has an issue with Ares. They don't like Tony Stark, they don't like the gun image, they don't like its associated with America image or whatever but it really seems like a writer there has a mad on against Ares. I'd be down with them getting nuked from orbit or something but all the plot lines seem to revolve around Ares being run by the dumbest people on earth.


None of the writers has a mad-on against Ares as far as I know. They're doing quite well in some areas (For example, spreading into the CAS) even as they do poorly in other areas.

You'd almost think that internal turmoil was causing the corporation to under-perform as players jockied for position, causing stock imbalances that would allow for consolidation of control or the like.

But that'd be silly.
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Charon
post Jun 11 2013, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 11 2013, 07:45 AM) *
My thought was (after someone notified me of the similarities to iPhone problems) someone has a problem with Apple Computers and vented his revenge fantasies on Ares.


And I am still hoping that Damien has lost it (preferably insects), somehow, and will be ousted as a result. I mean, he has to be. Otherwise, his incomptence will start to taint Aurelius, Vogel and Daviar. Because once you start believing that Damien Knight is a boob for letting that Excalibur debacle happens on his watch, you then have to Wonder how incompetent his enemies have to be to fail to oust him! It's not like he own 51% of the corp.



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Charon
post Jun 11 2013, 04:10 PM
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QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Jun 11 2013, 10:56 AM) *
You'd almost think that internal turmoil was causing the corporation to under-perform as players jockied for position, causing stock imbalances that would allow for consolidation of control or the like.

But that'd be silly.


Hold your sarcams, that's perfectly sensible, but that in no way explains the Excalibur debacle, it makes it even more unlikely.

Excalibur is a crap project since inception; see Sacrificial Limb. Very early on, in a corp were everyone 'jockey for position' (which would be most corp) rivals of the people leading the Excalibur project should have made sure the project got scrapped, their rivals got canned, and they get the cushy budget instead. It's not as if a vicious executive hired runners to sabotage the initial production run; it was crap since the drawing board!

As it stands, for the project Excalibur to go through all the way to production and sales, it takes dozens of powerful executive all the way to Damien Knight willing to attach their cart to a visibly dead horse. Not a very likely scenario in a corp where everyone is watching their ass and making sure rivals who make mistakes pay the price.
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hermit
post Jun 11 2013, 06:01 PM
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QUOTE
You'd almost think that internal turmoil was causing the corporation to under-perform as players jockied for position, causing stock imbalances that would allow for consolidation of control or the like.

But that'd be silly.

Not when reading stormfront. Because this is hardly ever mentioned.

QUOTE
And I am still hoping that Damien has lost it (preferably insects), somehow, and will be ousted as a result. I mean, he has to be. Otherwise, his incomptence will start to taint Aurelius, Vogel and Daviar. Because once you start believing that Damien Knight is a boob for letting that Excalibur debacle happens on his watch, you then have to Wonder how incompetent his enemies have to be to fail to oust him! It's not like he own 51% of the corp.

With some authors I really wonder why they get stints in such big books.
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MADness
post Jun 11 2013, 07:21 PM
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pre-note: I have not read Storm Front. I came in all ready to rant. Thank you for not doing what I have seen done. Which is usually "They make one bad thing and collapse, herp, stupid!" It is actually more that that, I think. I vaguely recall an off hands reference to some other fiasco when the Excalibur first comes up. I have also noticed a Twitter lost from the 70's account. Iirc, there was also a related blog post.

I feel like there is going to be a lot of interesting stuff with Ares, from bugs to guns to internal sabotage.

Post-note: I am not arguing that the Excalibur plot itself is perfectly sensible, it is not.
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SpellBinder
post Jun 11 2013, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (Charon @ Jun 11 2013, 09:58 AM) *
And I am still hoping that Damien has lost it (preferably insects), somehow, and will be ousted as a result. I mean, he has to be. Otherwise, his incomptence will start to taint Aurelius, Vogel and Daviar. Because once you start believing that Damien Knight is a boob for letting that Excalibur debacle happens on his watch, you then have to Wonder how incompetent his enemies have to be to fail to oust him! It's not like he own 51% of the corp.
What if the whole issue with the Excalibur a feint intentionally done and authorized by Knight?
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binarywraith
post Jun 11 2013, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE (Charon @ Jun 10 2013, 04:37 PM) *
Okay, so was the consensus: 'The bugs got Damien' or 'The Writers don't understand squat about business!'?


Little bit of both.

Have you read War! yet? If you don't have it, for the love of little green Nerps don't pay money for it.
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Charon
post Jun 11 2013, 09:29 PM
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QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Jun 11 2013, 02:21 PM) *
What if the whole issue with the Excalibur a feint intentionally done and authorized by Knight?


I'd have to see to what end.

Like willingly do something that that causes Ares stock tp fall so that Knight can buy back some stock at a good price and increase his control of the corporatation? That would make it a shorter (and more loony tune) version of the Villier/Lanier long con. Not sure how I'd feel about that.
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Charon
post Jun 11 2013, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jun 11 2013, 02:25 PM) *
Little bit of both.

Have you read War! yet? If you don't have it, for the love of little green Nerps don't pay money for it.


Ahem. Too late. Have it, haven't really read it, though. In fact, I bought it toward the end of my 4th edition run, not in my recent mad dash to buy what has been published since in preparation for the 5th.

So what is so bad about it?

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hermit
post Jun 11 2013, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE
What if the whole issue with the Excalibur a feint intentionally done and authorized by Knight?

Why should he burn down his own house?
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