Rules questions for 5th Options

[BishopMcQ]

It can also be looked at as a possible edge that comes with a risk. Is it worth the bonus to turn it on? Can you get the job done without the bonus? Stone-cold pros may shrug at the things kids do, or may button up their defenses with IC and encryption while they dare someone to be bold enough to touch their signal.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Bingo. It sounds like this is just a gameplay justification for an augmented character holding the Idiot Ball. I can see having an internal, hardwired network connecting all your cyberware together; that not only makes sense, it's actually a good idea. Having your 'ware shouting to each other in the radio band? That's breathtakingly dumb.

Yeah... If I ever GM for SR5, that's one of the first things that's getting houseruled out, balance be damned. There's only so much stupidity my suspension of disbelief can take before it cries bullshit with the volume of a thousand voices screaming out as one. That shit flies past that line at a significant fraction of the speed of light.

[Aaron]

Cool thanks! What about this matrix noise we are hearing about. Any details?

Noise is a mechanic that covers all of the things that make it harder to affect a target with a Matrix action. This includes distance, interference, attenuation, and jamming all in one rating. There are a few sources of noise reduction.

While we're talking Matrix, I wanted to mention that Matrix attributes in a deck can be reconfigured at a rate of one swap of two ratings per Free Action. There is a program that lets you completely reconfigure your deck all in one go.

[Seerow]

Noise is a mechanic that covers all of the things that make it harder to affect a target with a Matrix action. This includes distance, interference, attenuation, and jamming all in one rating. There are a few sources of noise reduction.

While we're talking Matrix, I wanted to mention that Matrix attributes in a deck can be reconfigured at a rate of one swap of two ratings per Free Action. There is a program that lets you completely reconfigure your deck all in one go.

This might mean more to us with more idea of what matrix attributes actually are? I'm assuming we don't just have Firewall/System/Response/Signal anymore. And being able to spend an action to shift your signal into a boosted Firewall doesn't really make a lot of sense.

[Aaron]

Is it possible to have a little explanation on simple and complexe actions related to fire gun, because preview #4 is not clear on that ?

Rather than spend, say, two Simple Actions sending six bullets downrange from your Ingram Smartgun, you do it in a single Complex Action. It means that people's action phases take less time and combats move more smoothly.

[Aaron]

This might mean more to us with more idea of what matrix attributes actually are? I'm assuming we don't just have Firewall/System/Response/Signal anymore. And being able to spend an action to shift your signal into a boosted Firewall doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Attack, Sleaze, Data Processing, Firewall.

[focke]

Could anyone shed some light on how contacts are obtained during char gen?

[RHat]

Bingo. It sounds like this is just a gameplay justification for an augmented character holding the Idiot Ball. I can see having an internal, hardwired network connecting all your cyberware together; that not only makes sense, it's actually a good idea. Having your 'ware shouting to each other in the radio band? That's breathtakingly dumb.

I don't have the book, so I can't say for certain, but it might be the case that due to the changes in Matrix protocols it is no longer possible to create those small, isolated networks without something major at its core. It could actually be a structural change away from the ad-hoc mesh networking of SR4.

[tasti man LH]

Attack, Sleaze, Data Processing, Firewall.

Waitwaitwait...so does this mean that all decks have essentially a built-in Attack program?

As well as a built-in Sleaze/Stealth program?

[Shinobi Killfist]

Not really a rule, but a thought based on editions 1-4.


gear, spells, ware etc. how much is taken from later 4e supplements. The tradition seems to be roughly the same amount of crap in the main book for each edition and then weapon book#1 is pretty much like weapons book # 1. Will it be like in all the previous editions, where until we are a few years in everything is just a rehash of the older editions stuff under the new editions rules. We sticking with the same or did you try to cram as much of that stuff as you could into the main book so when the street samurai handbook comes out it actually feels like we are getting a new book.

[Tanegar]

I don't have the book, so I can't say for certain, but it might be the case that due to the changes in Matrix protocols it is no longer possible to create those small, isolated networks without something major at its core. It could actually be a structural change away from the ad-hoc mesh networking of SR4.

Only nexi can support a network? What? Go home, RHat, you're drunk.

[RHat]

Only nexi can support a network? What? Go home, RHat, you're drunk.

Never said nexi - but perhaps peripheral nodes cannot independently operate the new networking protocols, requiring something like a commlink to manage it.

[Cube]

Hacking follows the Skill + Attribute model that we see with skill tests. Programs provide adjustments--changing DVs, modifiers, etc. Complex Forms are a completely different beast entirely and can provide a slew of effects that REALLY differentiate them from hackers. Also, not all Complex Forms are created equally. The stronger the effect, the bigger the Fading.

I really like the direction the devs went with SR5, Everything has a price and that doesn't always mean nuyen.

Would you (or anyone, really) mind giving an example of a Complex Form? My friends and I are really eager to learn more.

(Also, thank you everyone for the info so far. I am really excited about a lot of this!)

[apple]

It can also be looked at as a possible edge that comes with a risk. Is it worth the bonus to turn it on? Can you get the job done without the bonus? Stone-cold pros may shrug at the things kids do, or may button up their defenses with IC and encryption while they dare someone to be bold enough to touch their signal.

Well, its in the same area as "please wear blinking pink clothes with bunny stickers, if you do that you received +3 initiative (and -2 to your infiltration/disguise)".

It doesn´t make any sense, but hey, it´s risk vs reward.

SYL

[redwulfe]

Not sure how it doesn't make any since. Maybe it doesn't make a lot of since but it does make some.

Ganger numbers one two and three are shooting at my Sam. I am trying to keep from getting shot and kick on my reaction enhances things for me start to seem to move slower as I start to move for cover. I look left then right and make a descission to head for some crates of to the side. I get to the cover but not as fast as I would like my time searching and making the descision cost me some of my reaction time. With my wireless on the enhances can take samples for other nodes in the area and when the Ganges start shooting I will see the fruit of that dat appear in my vision as an arrow pointing saying optimal cover here or some such.

This would be other examples but I think it doesn't make a lot of since, but I understand the basic resoning behind the rule. All equipment now can work like a mini tac-net giving you a bonus, if you care to open them up to the wireless world around you. You can't get the bonus if it is a wired system as they won't be drawing info for outside nodes and thereby getting more info for there limited fuzzy logic to work out the details.

Also no system will ever be a perfect simulation of real life and who am I to say what the technology of 2075 will be able to do.

[Wakshaani]

It can also be looked at as a possible edge that comes with a risk. Is it worth the bonus to turn it on? Can you get the job done without the bonus? Stone-cold pros may shrug at the things kids do, or may button up their defenses with IC and encryption while they dare someone to be bold enough to touch their signal.

"Everything has a price."

A core concept going into SR5 is that power comes with a price. If you want an edge, you pay for it... people get melon ballers taken to their eyes to get steel orbs in their place, grow new organs in vats so they can be tweaked, so on and so forth.

Wireless is one of those options. By networking your gear, sharing data with several processors, having interactions, you can make your stuff gestalt and get better... but also more vulnerable. Are the bonuses that you get from doing so worth the risk that a decker or technomancer could tie you into a knot?

That's for you to decide.

Push the limit or play it safe?

You have a choice.

[Shinobi Killfist]

"Everything has a price."

A core concept going into SR5 is that power comes with a price. If you want an edge, you pay for it... people get melon ballers taken to their eyes to get steel orbs in their place, grow new organs in vats so they can be tweaked, so on and so forth.

Wireless is one of those options. By networking your gear, sharing data with several processors, having interactions, you can make your stuff gestalt and get better... but also more vulnerable. Are the bonuses that you get from doing so worth the risk that a decker or technomancer could tie you into a knot?

That's for you to decide.

Push the limit or play it safe?

You have a choice.

I think everyone understands the rule intent, but it is forced in an idiotic fashion. Take the reaction enhancer, wired example. You have 2 pieces of cyber going do the same place, why to they need to broadcast out to another location to meet up again and work together. Rules reason, sure we get it risk vs reward, in game um I got nothing, even if it required a comlink to process as RHat suggested every street sam would have a implanted comlink that tookinformation in and pushed it out through DNI but did not broadcast wirelessly. Risk vs reward is awesome, but if the risk feels forced it doesn't work.

[Sengir]

I don't have the book, so I can't say for certain, but it might be the case that due to the changes in Matrix protocols it is no longer possible to create those small, isolated networks without something major at its core.

Cyberware DNI and interconnectivity has nothing to do with Matrix protocols. Thus even forcing Wires and Reaction Enhancers to be connected to the PAN would be borderline. Forcing them to connect to the full worldwide Matrix in order to cooperate locally is just off the scales. Sounds like much-ridiculed the examples in the original blog post were indeed the best examples of that "mechanic" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[BishopMcQ]

I'm stripping game mechanics until the big release date.

Sample Hacking Program: You can perform a single Matrix action on two targets with this program.
Sample Complex Form: You push Resonance commands into a target, forcing it to perform a Matrix action.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Cyberware DNI and interconnectivity has nothing to do with Matrix protocols. Thus even forcing Wires and Reaction Enhancers to be connected to the PAN would be borderline. Forcing them to connect to the full worldwide Matrix in order to cooperate locally is just off the scales. Sounds like much-ridiculed the examples in the original blog post were indeed the best examples of that "mechanic" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I kind of get the feeling they chanted risk vs reward mantra or deckers need to combat deck so often it blinded them to what they were saying was required actually meant in game. And yes 2 DNI items needing to broadcast out connect to the matric in order to combine then breoacast back for better reflexes is kind of off the scale.

[Not of this Worl...]

Matrix connecting of two pieces of cyberware in your body will be immediately home-ruled out for me.

Now there was talk of traditions beign more significant for SR5. Can anyone provide an example? Does it make any meaningful difference if you're a Mage or Shaman for instance?

[BishopMcQ]

Or you know, they recognize the problem and hold out a carrot and a stick for people who are reckless.

"You can defend your gear with a good commlink and a personal area network (see PANs and WANs, p. 233). Even better, defending against threats from the Matrix is part of your team hacker’s job. If she’s not available, you might occasionally want to turn wireless off."

[Shinobi Killfist]

Or you know, they recognize the problem and hold out a carrot and a stick for people who are reckless.

"You can defend your gear with a good commlink and a personal area network (see PANs and WANs, p. 233). Even better, defending against threats from the Matrix is part of your team hacker’s job. If she’s not available, you might occasionally want to turn wireless off."

Yes, yes carrot, stick, risk, reward we get the game mechanic. If the game mechanic in SR was when you turn on your wireless you get this benefit but there is a 1 in 6 chance a cow will suddenly drop on you from orbit would anyone agree to it? 2 DNI items needing to connect to the matrix in order to connect in your body makes about as much sense as cows suddenly dropping on you from orbit. Risk vs reward is fine, but the risk has to make contextual sense in the world and forced matrix activity doesn't really make sense in the examples we have been given. A quick example they could easily have said due to sota wired now is considered to be moving at the speeds of the old wired+reaction enhancers. The new reaction enhancers are much faster and when combined with wired cause stress on the metahuman body and after they are deactivated the player must resist X stun damage. It is a risk, it gives a reward and it makes at least a lick of sense in the world. But instead the matrix connection was slapped on as the universal stick and it does not fit many examples.

[apple]

I will see the fruit of that dat appear in my vision as an arrow pointing saying optimal cover here or some such.

It´s called TacNet, not Reaction Enhancer.

That´s the funny part : "normal" runner/agents/hit squads/mob squads/black ops/ whatever teams were already online with radio communition, tacnets, drones (and sometimes wifi interfaces because of ingame regulations of companies), so the basic premise of "people were not online in SR4 therefore we force to to be online to get item boni" was not really neccessary.

The simple, elegant and (oh boy, the evil word) realistic solution inside the game world would have been to make radio communication, drones and tacnets part of the basic book and like smartlink, medkit or a fake SIN a normal part of every runner. Problem solved.

SYL

[apple]

You have a choice.

But I don´t have a choice. If I would have a choice, I would simply use DNI, cable or skinlink to "network my gear" as you described it" (and use a tacnet for online boni). However this is not possible because it goes against JHs aim of "everything gets hacked, even it does not make any sense, because radio communition, drones and tacnets are not enough"

If you really wants acceptable risk vs reward options because it would be an idea to start with risks appropriate to the choise in question. In that case cyberware ... not working, problems with the DNI, pain, implant rejection, medical drug abuse.

SYL