Catalyst's garbage, Are there any SR books worth reading since "War!"? Options

[Caduceus]

The exclamation mark really should have been the first clue.

Until earlier today, I hadn't bought a Shadowrun book since I bought War! two years ago and was appalled by the fact that it was literally the lowest quality printed book I had every spent money on. I was so angry at Catalyst I wrote off Shadowrun for two years-ish. However, I've been in love with the Shadowrun universe since I bought Paranormal Animals of North America with my allowance when I was 8 years old. I was stoked about the upcoming release of Shadowrun Returns, and figured if Jordan Weisman was working with Catalyst in the manner that Shadowrun.com indicates, the quality of Catalysts products must have gone back up to the level it was before they decided they didn't want to pay writers for a while. So earlier today I paid a visit to my local game store and, because I've always loved the dragons in Shadowrun, I bought The Clutch of Dragons.

Fuck was I wrong about the quality!

RPG books are never, you know, the best written documents in the world. But they're usually decent. The sort of person who is good enough at roleplaying to manage to get hired to write a supplement, and/or is the sort of person to launch their own system, is usually a pretty readable writer just because the same thinking patterns that make a good roleplayer also make for a competent writer. But Catalyst, apparently, is really prizing paying their writers a pittance over finding anyone capable of stringing a goddamn sentence together.

"While these two corporations continue to tussle, four other corporations in which Hestaby has invested have already collapsed due to the pressure Saeder-Krupp put on them. These companies include BioLogic Technologies, BCMU, Johns Hopkins Institute of Health, Inc., and Olgitechnolies." Really? The four corps really include that list of four corps? Well I'll be damned! Do they include any others? Because claiming that a group "includes" some specific examples implicitly means that there are other fucking items in that group that haven't been mentioned. "Are" is a great fucking verb if you want to talk about all the individual items in a group. Where the fuck did you learn to write and/or edit, person who let that fucking sentence into this book?

I will admit, this is one awkward passage in a book that I have barely gotten in to. But it is merely the example that broke my patience's back, and a damn shitty start, considering that it's on page 15 of a 150ish page book. Bottom line, what I've read so far is pretty badly written. I've got a lot of fucking RPG supplements, both mainstream and indie, and it's pretty rare that I stop and say to myself "Boy this is poorly written." In fact, it's so rare that it's only happened with products put out by Catalyst. Since I paid 30 goddamn dollars for this book, I'm going to do my best to plow through the rest of it. I plowed through all of War!, getting angrier all the time, and this is, I will admit, much better than War! so far. Maybe this is an isolated bad bit in a competent book. It might even be good enough that if some other company had put it out, one that I wasn't still mad at over War!, I would have overlooked the low quality. But it's fucking not, and I'm pissed that I gave more money to Catalyst, only to find out that two years later they have gotten their shit together enough to hire some half-way decent writers, or gotten a half-way decent editor. And quite frankly, I'm willing to bet its the latter over the former. My guess is this shit wasn't edited by someone who had the first clue what they were doing, and I'm pretty sure that's been the case for a couple of years now.

This is a pretty incoherent rant, for which I apologize. I'm tired and kind of drunk. But I have a lot of experience reading both amateur writing and RPG supplements, and Catalyst really wins a prize. I am bummed that they still have the license for Shadowrun, because it is my favorite RPG setting. So I guess I'm asking if there are any other books that were put out between War! and now that are worth reading. I'd like to get caught up on the meta-plot for 5th Edition, but after reading 15 pages of The Clutch of Dragons I don't have high hopes for 5th Edition.

[Bigity]

Wait til you get to hordes.

Or was that Storm Front?



But I tend to think SR needs stronger editing more than writing. The writing IMO, has been better, granted - I haven't bought much SR4, but the 2-3 things are better than War! (which I read a borrowed copy).

Writers need to have good ideas, a knowledge of SR lore, etc. Editors need to make them come across as ..not horrible at communication.

[tasti man LH]

I think at this point having an "SR Continuity Bible" might be a good thing to have for the folks at Catalyst. Just to, you know, avoid the issues of having to dig through multiple books and then forgetting to look at one book that they didn't think to look because the metaplot point they were looking for wasn't in the obvious sources.

EDIT: Revisions for better sentence structure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Raiden]

I think at this point having an "SR Continuity Bible" might be a good thing to have for the folks at Catalyst, to avoid the issues of having to dig through multiple books and then forgetting to look at one book that they didn't think to look because the metaplot point they were looking for wasn't in the obvious sources.

this, this I like. lol

[Draco18s]

I think at this point having an "SR Continuity Bible" might be a good thing to have for the folks at Catalyst.

I think at this point said bible would be an encyclopedia.

[Raiden]

I think at this point said bible would be an encyclopedia.

world record for most stuff stuffed in one book. lol

[tasti man LH]

I don't even want to think about the Continuity Bible for Star Wars...

Still, to me anyways, it's starting to look like the writers are starting to get lost in SR's +20 years worth of history and continuity, and having some kind of guiding post to point to where things are would help A LOT.

It's a bit hard to catch everything, every time.

(especially since, as the EWA thread is starting to show)

[RHat]

I think at this point said bible would be an encyclopedia.

That's actually hardly unusual for such a document - especially when you consider that they often contain greater detail or entire elements that have not reached the public eye.

[JesterZero]

I think at this point said bible would be an encyclopedia.

If Dumpshockers maintained the Shadowrun wiki with a vengeance, wouldn't that amount to roughly the same thing?

[Mantis]

Yeah probably. But then that would mean we would have to actually do something rather than just complain. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Kidding, kidding, don't throw things.

[Wired_SR_AEGIS]

I don't even want to think about the Continuity Bible for Star Wars...

Star Wars Change Control Board (SWCCB) meets biweekly and is composed of Imperial, Rebel, New Republic, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, and Ewok Stakeholders. All Universe Change Requests (UCR) must be submitted to the SWCCB by the Friday prior. All Theme Architects must present their UCR in person.

A super majority of SWCCB stakeholders must approve each stage of UCR development through implementation.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

[kzt]

I think at this point having an "SR Continuity Bible" might be a good thing to have for the folks at Catalyst. Just to, you know, avoid the issues of having to dig through multiple books and then forgetting to look at one book that they didn't think to look because the metaplot point they were looking for wasn't in the obvious sources.

Last I heard, the line developer wasn't expecting his writers to understand the rules to SR, much less have played SR. You might think that is a recipe for disaster, but you are clearly not the kind of superior manager who lets all their competent writers walk away over piddly amounts of money.

[Sendaz]

Last I heard, the line developer wasn't expecting his writers to understand the rules to SR, much less have played SR. You might think that is a recipe for disaster, but you are clearly not the kind of superior manager who lets all their competent writers walk away over piddly amounts of money.

Please do not tell me they boned Stackpole again. >_<;

[Aaron]

I have personally seen a large roomful of people give Elven Blood and its author a standing O. I think that was written after WAR!

[binarywraith]

I think at this point said bible would be an encyclopedia.

This is literally what the Wiki software was written to do.

If they're not using it, or something like it, then I really have to stare at them and shake my head. It couldn't be terribly expensive to get an intern in to transcribe all that info. Hell, there are probably people around here who'd be willing to do it on the cheap just to get better-referenced books.

[CanRay]

So, my work is garbage. Thanks.

[Shemhazai]

How important is continuity? Personally, I would like to see a reboot where the really great stuff can be kept, and more great ideas that happen to break current continuity too badly can be added. Barring that, I would have no problem at all with some fairly massive retconning. To me, gameworld flavor is far more important than history.

[Draco18s]

If Dumpshockers maintained the Shadowrun wiki with a vengeance, wouldn't that amount to roughly the same thing?

The wiki that was hosted here on Dumpshock was sooo much better than that one.

[Patrick Goodman]

The problem with wikis is that they're loaded up with a bunch of non-canon crap that isn't marked as such, because anybody with a browser, a connection, and a couple of gray cells to rub together can post on the damn things.

That said, while we don't have the Big Book of What's Coming Down the Pike, we do have a behind-the-scenes wiki where we, as freelancers, try to keep things up-to-date. My own contributions to this have been sadly lax of late, but I'm working on correcting that.

[binarywraith]

The problem with wikis is that they're loaded up with a bunch of non-canon crap that isn't marked as such, because anybody with a browser, a connection, and a couple of gray cells to rub together can post on the damn things.

That said, while we don't have the Big Book of What's Coming Down the Pike, we do have a behind-the-scenes wiki where we, as freelancers, try to keep things up-to-date. My own contributions to this have been sadly lax of late, but I'm working on correcting that.

I'm glad to hear you have that. That was my biggest moment of headdesking. If the folks behind the scenes weren't taking advantage of how dog-easy a wiki format makes keeping tack of linked info to allow quick background research, it'd be shameful.

[Fatum]

How important is continuity? Personally, I would like to see a reboot where the really great stuff can be kept, and more great ideas that happen to break current continuity too badly can be added. Barring that, I would have no problem at all with some fairly massive retconning. To me, gameworld flavor is far more important than history.

Retcons and changes worked better for earlier books, which were written without omniscient shadowtalkers privy to great dragon politics and secret meetings.

[Larsine]

This is a pretty incoherent rant, for which I apologize. I'm tired and kind of drunk.

So that's your excuse for swearing in nearly each sentence?

Boy am I happy I don't have to proofread any of your material (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[KarmaInferno]

Star Wars Change Control Board (SWCCB) meets biweekly and is composed of Imperial, Rebel, New Republic, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, and Ewok Stakeholders. All Universe Change Requests (UCR) must be submitted to the SWCCB by the Friday prior. All Theme Architects must present their UCR in person.

A super majority of SWCCB stakeholders must approve each stage of UCR development through implementation.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Then Lucas walks in, says "I think this should happen", and the board has to scrap years of development.

I do, in fact, have a Star Wars continuity and licensing guide, having worked for a licencee at one point. It is a 3-ring binder three inches thick and dates from 2001, and only covered the movies. Expanded Universe was a different binder. I have no idea what the current one looks like.


-k

[Epicedion]

Then Lucas walks in, says "I think this should happen", and the board has to scrap years of development.

Not anymore!

[CanRay]

Apparently garbage sells.