SR5 Preview #5: Magic Options

[tasti man LH]

And with that, the preview on how magic works in SR5.

Download herez.

[Epicedion]

Let's kick this pig.

1) Area spells. Hmm. I'm hoping spell descriptions for stuff like Fireball tells you to treat it like an explosion, affecting people around corners, stopping at a transparent barrier, etc.

2) Multiple spells. Hoping the double-power-focus thing is cleanly snipped. Otherwise cool.

3) Reckless spellcasting. Interesting. Can you Recklessly cast Multiple spells? "I cast Fireball and Fireball and Fireball and Fireball!"

4) The flip to Physical Drain is now based on net hits rather than Force. Interesting way of doing it. So you can cast at Force 10, but if you get 1 hit you're still only taking (a whole lot of) Stun Drain.

5) Drain minimum of 2. Crazy town. I guess there's no point to casting Force 1 Stunbolts anyway.

6) Spells are subject to normal visibility modifiers. Affected by Cover, though? Is Cover a visibility modifier, or are those just dark/light/smoke/etc?

[Shinobi Killfist]

I wonder why they stuck with astral combat tests being willpower based. What exactly is your astral logic as agility doing anyways? Charisma still adds into astral combat as the stomp you into the ground stat why shouldn't logic be the ability to connect stat? On an overall scale I am also curious what the various stats do for magic in general, charisma has always had # of spirits tied to it, what does logic get if anything still focuses?, what about intuition for the eventual intuition based traditions.(Personally I don't like them, its just a too easy way for orks to dodge their weakness in this archetype) I think being tied to assensing is enough for intuition but whaever.

[Glyph]

I would say cover works if it is concealing. In other words, being half-hidden behind a trashed car would help you, but crouching behind a clear ballistic shield wouldn't.

For all of the talk about making hermetics and shamans more distinct, I didn't see it, other than a bit more fluff about their attitudes. I'm fine with that myself, as I prefer for them to use the same mechanics and just differ on things like Drain Attributes and what spirits they can summon. Others might be a bit disappointed, though.

I wish we had seen even a few spells, to get an idea of what typical Drain will be like. I am also interested in how Immunity to Normal Weapons has been revised, if at all, for spirits. For all of the gimping they have done to direct combat spells, it was high Force spirits that were one of the real unbalancing factors in magic. Although with damage levels going up across the board, leaving spirit hardened armor exactly the same would actually be weakening it to a more manageable level.

[Shinobi Killfist]

While immunity to normal weapons was an issue I foudd the versatility of a spirits powers the big problem. It was like gettig dozens of spells for free. I kind of think spirits should have a really narrow base list and thier optional powers should be things you would have to invest karma in in order to learn how to invest a spirit with that ability.

[phlapjack77]

While immunity to normal weapons was an issue I foudd the versatility of a spirits powers the big problem. It was like gettig dozens of spells for free. I kind of think spirits should have a really narrow base list and thier optional powers should be things you would have to invest karma in in order to learn how to invest a spirit with that ability.

I like this idea! Really fleshes out and gives flavor to conjuring, as opposed to just investing in one skill (like any other skill) and being able to use it to be (arguably) the most powerful skill in the game. And it would make for some cool side-quests too, where the mage searches for the magic formula to be able to invest their summoned spirits with the Movement power...

I would even think something like this would be hella interesting for spellcasting too. No longer can you learn firebolt, you learn a basic direct-damage attack and then learn (spend karma) on optional effects you can add, like fire/acid/cold/etc.

[Umidori]

I would say cover works if it is concealing. In other words, being half-hidden behind a trashed car would help you, but crouching behind a clear ballistic shield wouldn't.

Previously, magic hasn't worked that way. You can't cast a spell through a glass windowpane, for example, because it acts as an astral barrier. (That said, you could still use optical devices like binoculars to "aim" your spells at distant targets, et cetera.)

~Umi

[Glyph]

Where are you getting that from? I don't see anything in the rules about transparent barriers impeding spells. Even the physical barrier spell doesn't stop spells.

[Sendaz]

Where are you getting that from? I don't see anything in the rules about transparent barriers impeding spells. Even the physical barrier spell doesn't stop spells.

I think he is thinking of mirrored glass in a car preventing you from casting into the interior as you can not see the target. It's why most of the megas have mirrored windows on the buildings.

A mana spell should work as it travels via astral, but a physical spell typically travels from you to target so would have to overcome the glass in the way to the target.

[Grinder]

Mana spells require LoS too.

[Grinder]

6) Spells are subject to normal visibility modifiers. Affected by Cover, though? Is Cover a visibility modifier, or are those just dark/light/smoke/etc?

Nothing new here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[CeeJay]

Drain damage, regardless of whether it is Stun or Physical damage, cannot be healed by any means other than the natural properties of the body—that means no magical healing and no medkits.

Nice to see that spelled out so clearly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-CJ

[Larsine]

Let's kick this pig.

1) Area spells. Hmm. I'm hoping spell descriptions for stuff like Fireball tells you to treat it like an explosion, affecting people around corners, stopping at a transparent barrier, etc.

Area spells have always only affected what you can see. Any reason why you would think it should change in this edition?

[Sendaz]

Yes, but if you can see the target through said window you can still use a direct combat spell. (pg 281 on preview: line of sight can be established with your natural vision, including using reflective surfaces and looking through transparent objects)

Please note a very dirty window that restricted your view would apply dice modifers just like smoke or fog, depending on how bad it was.

(Note to self: Bring Windex and squeegee on next run)

Now if the mage is using astral sight at the time, Glyph is right that the window is opaque looking on the astral and you would not see the target on the other side unless maybe he was pressed up against it so his own aura was bleeding through and even then its iffy.

Again, a mirrored window that blocks you from seeing whats behind it will pretty much stop a direct spell, but in that case you just break the window first, whether with gun, hammer or spell, to get the to chewy bits on the other side.

[RHat]

Yes, but if you can see the target through said window you can still use a direct combat spell. (pg 281 on preview: line of sight can be established with your natural vision, including using reflective surfaces and looking through transparent objects)

Please note a very dirty window that restricted your view would apply dice modifers just like smoke or fog, depending on how bad it was.

A polarized window, which if I recall correctly is the default in the Sixth World, would prevent you from seeing inside at all and thus block line of sight.

[Larsine]

A polarized window, which if I recall correctly is the default in the Sixth World, would prevent you from seeing inside at all and thus block line of sight.

I'm quite sure a lot og shop don't have polarized windows. Otherwise window shopping just becomes even more boring.

[Sendaz]

A polarized window, which if I recall correctly is the default in the Sixth World, would prevent you from seeing inside at all and thus block line of sight.

There are different levels of polarized and the default for most companies is the highly polarized versions that do block you from seeing in.

Some storefronts however still often have lower polarized windows. You can see in but it cuts the reflective glare you get from walking by a window on a sunny day. Otherwise how would you see in?

Also I imagine the poorer parts of town still use old fashioned glass or plexy and polarizing is probably not a standard option.

AR does help a lot for stores on this as you can have all your sale items on virtual display. But you would still normally have some items on physical display.

Likewise you might have windows inside a building, conference rooms and some offices come to mind for this. Again you could see through these and thus targeting is possible.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Just imagine what would happen if the spell Demolish Window got circulated on the 'trix translated into like, the four or five most common traditions, free of charge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[RHat]

What about Weaponize Window?

[Sendaz]

What about Weaponize Window?

Hmm..

Change Plexiglass to C12?

Ok maybe not, but am sure there could be some fun with this.

wait.

how about Reverse Polarizing?

Changes the polarization of the window allowing those outside to see through the window while the inside is now polarized such that they cant see out.

Will have to think on this one...

[RHat]

Hmm..

Change Plexiglass to C12?

Ok maybe not, but am sure there could be some fun with this.

I was basically thinking "convert window to shards and hit things with the shards".

[Sendaz]

I was basically thinking "convert window to shards and hit things with the shards".

That would work too... that would be nasty if you were close to it.




So the preview says you CAN do two quickcasts in an action phase.

Whether or not you can not pass out from drain after remains a question.

There is going to be some howling about that, seeing as another section said you can normally only do one attack action per phase, which raises the question was this a typo and someone using a gun could use two simple actions for shooting or not.

[bannockburn]

Two times reckless spellcasting does not necessarily mean two attacks.

[Moirdryd]

On the subject of Traditions, it's entirely possible there are more details on Mages and Shamans elsewhere in the Magic Chapter. That reading and layout is no dissimilar to SR3 where each had a column around the core magic rules and then each got a couple of pages of more in depth description. People have alluded to there being a greater difference again so it's possible.

[Mäx]

There is going to be some howling about that, seeing as another section said you can normally only do one attack action per phase, which raises the question was this a typo and someone using a gun could use two simple actions for shooting or not.

You can cast 2 spells if your willing to 5+ drain for both, but only one of them can be attack spell.
Do note you could also use some otherkind of attack and cast a non attack spell in the same IP.