Shadowrun 5 Errata, Let's stay focused here Options

[Patrick Goodman]

This thread is meant for errata questions, typos, and things of that nature. Since I'm going to be going through here and gathering this stuff up and compiling it, I'd really like to keep this thread as close to laser-like in focus as is possible. To that end, I'd appreciate any arguments over rules concepts and stuff to be taken elsewhere.

Something like, "Page 98, in the Additional Purchases table: Is 'Registering Spirits' supposed to be 'Registering Sprites'?" is good.

Something like, "Limits suck! Get rid of them!" is bad.

So have at it. Just be concise, focused, and polite. This is time away from my family, and if I don't see the benefit I'll drop it like a hot rock.

[Patrick Goodman]

An addendum: Just as a reminder, the previews are from the actual book as it currently exists, so if all you have is the previews, you can still help me out here.

[Medicineman]

What about the Errors from the Previews (Dwarfes with no Thermo Vision or Trolls with 50 % Cyberwarecost increase) ?

with the right Dance
Medicineman

Looking Up to Patricks 2nd Post
Ahh Ok, Thanks for the clearifying (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[LurkerOutThere]

Power Point cost? Also are power points essentially supposed to be completely independant/complementary of the mystic adepts spell casting magic rating? Was that a design oversight or is it as intended?

[Patrick Goodman]

What about the Errors from the Previews (Dwarfes with no Thermo Vision or Trolls with 50 % Cyberwarecost increase) ?

Those two are most definitely on the list.

Power Point cost? Also are power points essentially supposed to be completely independant/complementary of the mystic adepts spell casting magic rating? Was that a design oversight or is it as intended?

Mystic adept power points at chargen are being looked at; the others are likely better explained in the magic section, but I could be wrong. I'll throw these to the appropriate people so we can get them addressed. You should go get some sleep.

[LurkerOutThere]

If this goes beyond scope I apologize and will redact to keep things on track: All devices that don't explicitly have a firewall/data processing rating have it at their device rating? SO the intent is that a 5k Transys Avalon is comparable on defense to a 214K Tenraku Tsurugi and Flat out superior then the Hermes Chariot and Novatech Navigator?

[Daedelus]

+ armor items: As the stacking rules read in the preview you can put on enough + armor items to exceed your strength and take the penalty, but you do not benefit from doing so. It states that "(t)he maximum bonus a character receive from these items is limited to their Strength attribute. For every 2 full points by which the bonus exceeds the character’s Strength, the character suffers a –1 penalty to Agility and Reaction."
If this is as intended the penalty portion is irrelevant from a rules perspective because you can never benefit from over burdening yourself with armor anyway. This would also free up valuable text space in the book that can be used to clear up other areas. And if it is not then the verbiage needs to be tweaked to make it clear that you can have more +armor, but that you take a penalty for having the benefit.

[Shemhazai]

Magic has a starting value from 1 to 6 (or 7 with the Exceptional Attribute quality), but you don’t have to settle for that limit forever. You can go through a process called Initiation (p. 324) that can enhance your abilities. The maximum value of your Magic Attribute (if you have one) is 6 + your Initiation level.

... is 6 (or 7 with the Exceptional Attribute quality) + your Initiation level.

[Daedelus]

Pg. 164, Prieview 4: "During his Action Phase, a character may take two Simple Actions, though only one can be an attack action. A character may also take a Free Action with the two Simple Actions."

In the final version is there a list/chart that specifies which actions are "Attack Actions"? This will cause a great deal of discussion and argument at organized play tables if left to the subjective opinions of various GMs and players.

[Bull]

+ armor items: As the stacking rules read in the preview you can put on enough + armor items to exceed your strength and take the penalty, but you do not benefit from doing so. It states that "(t)he maximum bonus a character receive from these items is limited to their Strength attribute. For every 2 full points by which the bonus exceeds the character’s Strength, the character suffers a –1 penalty to Agility and Reaction."
If this is as intended the penalty portion is irrelevant from a rules perspective because you can never benefit from over burdening yourself with armor anyway. This would also free up valuable text space in the book that can be used to clear up other areas. And if it is not then the verbiage needs to be tweaked to make it clear that you can have more +armor, but that you take a penalty for having the benefit.

You get no direct armor benefit from stacking armor above your threshold (or wearing layered armor). But...

Keep in mind that armor sometimes provides more than simply armor. You can have modifications on the armor that provide resistances to elemental damage and the like. So while you can only use one set of armor stats, and you're taking some penalties, it might be worth the penalties to have both fire resistance and electrical resistance handy.

This rule also sets the ground work for future armor expansion stuff.

[Bull]

Pg. 164, Prieview 4: "During his Action Phase, a character may take two Simple Actions, though only one can be an attack action. A character may also take a Free Action with the two Simple Actions."

In the final version is there a list/chart that specifies which actions are "Attack Actions"? This will cause a great deal of discussion and argument at organized play tables if left to the subjective opinions of various GMs and players.

Such a list would be very long and very complex, because some actions can be both, depending on how they are used.

It's fairly straightforward, IMO. If it's anything that's used offensively against another character (PC or NPC), it's an attack. If it's defensive, it's not an attack.

There are a million possible exceptions to every single thing you can list as one or the other, so to try and list them all would be a near impossible task. The guidelines are there. But at the end of the day, just use some common sense. And in my opinion, if you think it might be an attack, it probably is.

Bull

[Stahlseele]

... is 6 (or 7 with the Exceptional Attribute quality) + your Initiation level.

no exceptional attribute for
magic
resonance
initiative
essence

[Bull]

no exceptional attribute for
magic
resonance
initiative
essence

You can actually take Exceptional Attribute for Magic and Resonance now. But not for INitiative and Essence, no.

[Stahlseele]

You can actually take Exceptional Attribute for Magic and Resonance now. But not for INitiative and Essence, no.

Buh WHA? O.o

[Bull]

Buh WHA? O.o

It's a whole new world. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You can only take this with Gamemaster Approval, but we allow it for Missions. It's a little bit expensive overall, and thus far I haven't made a straight-up character that's taken it due to that. But I'm also not a complete min-muncher either, so I'm certain I'm "doing it wrong". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[RHat]

Such a list would be very long and very complex, because some actions can be both, depending on how they are used.

It's fairly straightforward, IMO. If it's anything that's used offensively against another character (PC or NPC), it's an attack. If it's defensive, it's not an attack.

There are a million possible exceptions to every single thing you can list as one or the other, so to try and list them all would be a near impossible task. The guidelines are there. But at the end of the day, just use some common sense. And in my opinion, if you think it might be an attack, it probably is.

Bull

Sure, an exhaustive list is impractical. But I'm sure you can understand why some of us might like to see at least a guideline in the rules.

[Fatum]

You can actually take Exceptional Attribute for Magic and Resonance now. But not for INitiative and Essence, no.

Then it's an error that needs fixing: you can have Magic higher than 6+Initiation grade.

[Bull]

This is how I currently have it defined for the Missions FAQ:

In combat it says I can only make one attack action. What exactly does this mean?

It means don’t get cute and try to play word games. Barring using the Multiple Attacks Free Action (in which you split your dice pool to attack multiple targets), you cannot take a second offensive actions toward another character during your pass. This means throwing grenades, shooting guns, casting spells (recklessly or otherwise), spitting in their cheerios, spiking their tea with arsenic, or anything else that could be construed as a physical or mental attack in any way, shape or form. However, you may take a free action to cast disparaging remarks at their mothers if you so choose.

If you’re not certain if an action would be an attack, well, it probably is. But ask yourself if they used it against you would it be an attack? And if you’re still not certain, ask your gamemaster. However, be warned, if you try and argue with him he is authorized to smack you upside the head with the Shadowrun, Fifth Edition book.

How much damage does the SR5 book do, anyway?

The Origins Special Edition is softback, so only does Strength(S) damage. The regular hardback edition does Strength+1(P). The Limited Edition Hardback does Strength+2(P) with -1 AP.

(And just in case it's not entirely clear by adding SR Damage Values for the core rulebook, that's meant to be slightly tongue in cheek. Unless needed, in which case it's meant to empower the GM to depower to player. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

[Bull]

Then it's an error that needs fixing: you can have Magic higher than 6+Initiation grade.

Why is it an error? It's an exception to the standard rule. After all the book makes it perfectly clear in several places that the maximum unaugmented strength a human can have is 6. So are you saying that Exceptional Attribute is an error for them as well?

(Also, I'm assuming you meant can't have there. Otherwise... Umm... I'm not certain what you're disagreeing with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fatum]

Why is it an error? It's an exception to the standard rule. After all the book makes it perfectly clear in several places that the maximum unaugmented strength a human can have is 6. So are you saying that Exceptional Attribute is an error for them as well?

(Also, I'm assuming you meant can't have there. Otherwise... Umm... I'm not certain what you're disagreeing with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(note that I'm going by previews)
If Exceptional Attribute states outright that the usual limits like 6+Initiation Grade do not apply, it's okay, of course.
Otherwise, you can have Magic higher than 6+Initiation grade despite the rule stating the contrary.

[Giabralter]

Power Point cost? Also are power points essentially supposed to be completely independant/complementary of the mystic adepts spell casting magic rating? Was that a design oversight or is it as intended?

Mystic Adepts purchase power points independant of their magic rating. So no free power points equal to magic rating as physical Adepts.

[RHat]

Take your wife to the emergency room and spend all afternoon there, and the thread starts to get out of hand.

...

Holy crap, man - is everything okay?

And I move that should anyone further derail this topic, well... Let's just say damage values for the rulebook have been provided.

[Werewindlefr]

Street Samurai has an illegal strength rating on his arm (11 for a strength of 5).

[Sendaz]

(note that I'm going by previews)
If Exceptional Attribute states outright that the usual limits like 6+Initiation Grade do not apply, it's okay, of course.
Otherwise, you can have Magic higher than 6+Initiation grade despite the rule stating the contrary.

Then this sounds like a good one for the Errata: Could they include a a bit showing that the Exceptional Attribute may supersede the normal Magic/Resonance limit.

I know you are saying with GM approval, but really if its good enough for Missions, most players will take that to mean it's suitable for regular play.

[Mäx]

Why is it an error?

The post 8 of this topic lists the actual error in the book.

Mystic Adepts purchase power points independant of their magic rating. So no free power points equal to magic rating as physical Adepts.

Only at chargen.