Hacking Cyberware, Wargarbbbbbbl RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE Options

[Remnar]

This is probably the best one of them all, total comedy gold.

I would really really love to hear the justification for this from whoever wrote the gear chapter.

Come now, that's simple. The laser uses cloud based telemetry and video data to determine just about when your bullet hits; it then grabs some extra power from the "cloud" and turns into a quasi lethal laser, partially melts the targets armor in the localized location in which the bullet will hit, increasing armor penetration and therefore adding +1 DP.

Duh.

[KarmaInferno]

Like folks have said, it's not the idea, it's the execution.





-k

[RHat]

I'm sorry Neurosis, I completely and utterly disagree with you on this matter. Any character I have made will have the wireless in their cyber burned out. If my character needs to upgrade they use an implanted datajack to update the firmware. To run any of your cyber wireless (unless it's a cyber commlink, and even then run multiple instances of IC) is a stupid vulnerability that any person with an IQ greater than room temperature would not allow.

That clip you showed EXACTLY why you don't run your cyber wireless. It allows asshats to screw with your perception.

The point, in SR5, is to make that an actual decision rather than something where there is one and only one clearly right way. You can argue the implementation all you like, but it's a good goal.

[Draco18s]

By the way, just as the phrase "Hack CCTV" makes no sense in Hollywood, it shouldn't make any sense in Shadowrun.

The only way one should be able to hack cybereyes would be the way it was done in Accel World (if you have not seen, go watch, it was well executed).

[Cochise]

Bought one and took it apart, did you?

A less offensive answer would have been: "Of course the laser sight lacks both the required sensor as well as the computational power to achieve that goal on its own ... thus the need for Matrix interaction where the sensor data of the whole surroundings can be requested as well as the informational aggregation be performed - more or less real time".

See, both Laser Sight and Smart Link actually are the two better examples of the implementation. The only disturbing part being that limit increase and dice pool increase should occur the other way round: +DP as basic function and +L when external data aquisition is enabled.

[Draco18s]

I think the big BIG BIG problem with this whole matrix bonus thing is that there's a MASSIVE difference between "wireless capable" and "connected to your comlink."

[Fatum]

The point, in SR5, is to make that an actual decision rather than something where there is one and only one clearly right way. You can argue the implementation all you like, but it's a good goal.

The world is choke-full of good ideas with no way to implement them well.

[X-Kalibur]

I really do like the idea of deckers having a purpose other than their own little hacking side story after you get them to the jack point they need to access the paydata or they just force their way in from elsewhere. I like them providing EWar support and essentially being the technological overwatch. But maybe making everything require online access to be [more] useful was to expand the range of usefulness that hackers provide. TacNets were a good start with SR4, and many people have mentioned that communications and TacNets were more powerful than most people credited. Maybe force in quicker ways to shut down/trick cameras and sensors along with better ways to both protect and shut down drones and you have a very efficient support character. Now we're just going to see every decker going for the smartgun link on the opposition and forcing their clip to drop and the manual trigger to not respond.

It feels like they went from a way to provide their team bonus dice and deny the opposition some has instead turned into shut down each cybered enemy 1 at a time. It requires less broad thinking... also seems eerily reminiscent of Frank's matrix for SR4... how long until we see brain hacks?

[Stahlseele]

It feels like they went from a way to provide their team bonus dice and deny the opposition some has instead turned into shut down each cybered enemy 1 at a time. It requires less broad thinking... also seems eerily reminiscent of Frank's matrix for SR4... how long until we see brain hacks?

Wonder what he'd think about that . .

[Cochise]

Now we're just going to see every decker going for the smartgun link on the opposition and forcing their clip to drop and the manual trigger to not respond.

What actually bothers me in that regard is the likelyhood of not even that occuring, because the easiest standard tactic would still be to simply level the playground for all combatants by usage of area jamming, because even with the obviously speeded access of hackers it still takes far too long to "debuff" opposition in a meaningfull way.

[Tashiro]

And this has what to do with matrix,oh right nothing.

Again. The software's not in the hardware, it's in the cloud, and requires you to hook up to it to run the software.

[Tashiro]

Nope. If you want super-tech GitS style, you already have EP, if you want cyberpunk, you have SR. Turning SR into EP would remove that possibility of choice, making the RPG scene poorer.

Strangely enough, GitS falls under 'cyberpunk'. So, yes. You can have GitS in Shadowrun. They're not exclusionary.

I think one thing I'm going to need to add to this entire conversation, and which should probably be a policy on DumpShock:

"Don't yuck my yum."

[apple]

Is that really a fair poll?

3x "awesome" and 1x "I am stupid and I admit it?

*sigh*

What about:
# "Thats supercool and we need it in SR immediately in the same way and I am so glad that SR5 did it, it really improved the gameplay and expended the world and the system.
# "Its ok, but the implementation should be more SR-like, because, well, we are usually playing the bad guys, not Section 9 with a monster budget and 800 Build points, where everyone in S9 tend to be a high level hacker as well as being a general badass.
# It´s stupid, go away.

You do realize that there is a difference between having a good idea and making good rules to support this good (or bad) idea.

But probably no, you do not realize it.

SYL

[apple]

1) Wireless on-off switch, rather than manual action. You think, it works.

Ah ... no.

You are confusing DNI control and Wifi control. Again, logging on to your commlink and from there starting your cyberware control application, selecting the cyberware, typing "Please open the finger comparment", authorizing it sending that via satellite link to the cloud, have it processed there, having it send back to your finger compartement (which has an own satellite link, because desert, you know) and then having the cloud processed message executed is faster than think "open the damn thing".

SYL

[Moirdryd]

GitS is totally cyberpunk
But LotR is totally Fantasy, doesn't mean it works in a Forgotten Realms game.

Shadow is both a Setting and a System. Hacking Cyberware and elements of GitS are awesome as inspirations for aspects of SR but some things are out as out of place as Gandalf casting Wish or Teleport or a Bolt of Change.

Shadowrun has 20 years of established Mythos. Part of what's presented is indeed very GitS but very little to do with the way the Shadowrun Sixth World works. Now if it was a Reboot, it could have been far more easily accepted. But it's not, it's a continuation of the story with a whole bunch of things done in the Rules part of the game that don't mesh with the setting material.

Also in GitS almost all the cyber hacking is Ghost Hacking, your consciousness is online, or your comm is or some such and then your actual systems get hacked via that link (choke point PAN that people have been talking about). It's rare that individual cyber systems are hooked up seperately. And Section 9 plus most of the other mil spec and covert gear is silly protected by uber firewalls and net security plus semi dedicated AIs (not to mention they can all CounterHack mentally because if their DNI internal computer systems, the Major can at very least) a lot of the same also applies in things like Appleseed and Bubblegum Crisis.

Cyber hacking can be made to so easily fit the Sixth World and it's a shame that the effort to do so has missed the mark.

Either way. Still excited about SR5 because I don't own an RPG I haven't had to put some house rules in on at one level or another and I like most of what I see. The bits I don't I can change because it's my game at my table (and I really don't care about "missions" ).

[ShadowDragon8685]

Appeal to Awesomeness is not a valid debate strategy. While the clip was, indeed awesome, it doesn't let you ask a loaded question with no actual option to say "I disagree with you" without implicitly agreeing with your bullshit about exiling ourselves from the internet.

[Tashiro]

Ah ... no.

You are confusing DNI control and Wifi control. Again, logging on to your commlink and from there starting your cyberware control application, selecting the cyberware, typing "Please open the finger comparment", authorizing it sending that via satellite link to the cloud, have it processed there, having it send back to your finger compartement (which has an own satellite link, because desert, you know) and then having the cloud processed message executed is faster than think "open the damn thing".

SYL

No, I'm not confusing it. I'm looking at this as the same thing as having Google Glass. It follows your eye movements, or a simple voice command. Or, in the case of Shadowrun, there's a connection to your brain, like thought controlled devices have now. Only all the software is cloud-based, rather than in the device itself.

So, object A is connected to the Matrix through your commlink, and responds to your commands through any software running on the matrix, which is picked up by your commlink.

Sort of, 'your printer is connected to the internet through your computer, and runs on software found on the cloud, where all the drivers and such are, rather than taking up hard drive space'.

[Tashiro]

A bunch of stuff.

You? I like how you argue. Nice points, not really negative, admit there's some things you don't like, but you're polite about the whole thing, and accept other people might be perfectly fine with it (even if you disagree yourself). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Draco18s]

No, I'm not confusing it. I'm looking at this as the same thing as having Google Glass. It follows your eye movements, or a simple voice command.

And does Google Glass stop following your eye movements when you lose your wireless connection?

$10 says not.

[apple]

Sort of, 'your printer is connected to the internet through your computer, and runs on software found on the cloud, where all the drivers and such are, rather than taking up hard drive space'.

And why can´t I simply connect my printer directly to my computer?

Especially when I am a decker with software 6 and logic 9? I understand that for the "pro SR5 online bonus" crowd the explanation with the totally awesome cloud processing power is a sanctioning explanation - but it seems that you forget that the same driver which is found and running on the cloud can be installed or reprammed or coded by a dedicated decker on his cyberdeck.

Or?

SYL

[Sendaz]

... how long until we see brain hacks?

If the end of Storm Front is any sort of warning, not long at all.

Granted they are special cases, but it is the ultimate hack job really.

[Daedelus]

And why can´t I simply connect my printer directly to my computer?

Especially when I am a decker with software 6 and logic 9? I understand that for the "pro SR5 online bonus" crowd the explanation with the totally awesome cloud processing power is a sanctioning explanation - but it seems that you forget that the same driver which is found and running on the cloud can be installed or reprammed or coded by a dedicated decker on his cyberdeck.

Or?

SYL

It can. That is what turning off wireless does.

[Shortstraw]

Having your cyberware hacked is not fun. It is the D&D equivalent of constantly hitting the fighter with Mind Control spells after hitting the mage with Disintegrate.

With the wireless bonuses it is like the barbarian being offered the choice of having mind blank or auto failing will saves. Either he gets crazy rage power but flops around like a fish most of the time or he is the equivalent of an NPC class and is fit only to die for story effect.

To run any of your cyber wireless (unless it's a cyber commlink, and even then run multiple instances of IC) is a stupid vulnerability that any person with an IQ greater than room temperature would not allow.

And that's Celsius not Fahrenheit.

[Novocrane]

Nope. If you want super-tech GitS style, you already have EP, if you want cyberpunk, you have SR. Turning SR into EP would remove that possibility of choice, making the RPG scene poorer.

So ... don't play this game where you have to change certain things to make it like X, play this game where you have to change other things to make it like X? Lets throw an alternative in there, and say "Nova Praxis". I'd still rather play GitS SR.

[Sendaz]

And why can´t I simply connect my printer directly to my computer?

Because the Neonet USB7.0 cables you need to connect that printer are 15F availability now in SR5 to ensure only corporation security forces can hardwire connect their electronics? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Just kidding (we hope, have to see what they are in the book. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )