Excited for SR5? Options

[cndblank]

The 5th edition looks like it has checked off 2.5 out of 3 of my essential boxes for me to come back to a new edition. I know better than to get my hopes too high though, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

There are some game direction things I don't care for, but so far they seem like they'll be very easy to homerule away. So long as 5th edition does return to forcing those things in later books, I'll probably be shelling out for a number of products. But at this point it is still very conditional.

What are your essential boxes if you don't mind me asking?

[Pariahpaladin]

I'm excited. Avoided 4th Ed due to "I hate change". But 5th looks a lot crisper and I like a lot of what I have seen from the direction of the line as a whole. The wireless bonuses are a yellow flag for me. But I'm planning on running the rules as written for a while before house ruling anything.

[cndblank]

And more of what was good in SR4.

Unified game mechanics are so nice for the overworked GM.

I think that thing that finally made me give up on SR3 was the mechanics for Rigger vs Building Security Rigger/spyder at least as far as buying non adventures.
SR3 kept getting less and less fluff and more and more hard core ad hoc mechanics bolted on to the core.
I'm not throwing stones - the Six World covers RL, AR, VR, and the Astral plane simultaneously.
I'm just saying it was extremely hard for a GM to keep up with all the new mechanics.
I ended up running a decade long campaign using SR1-3.
And started a new campaign when 4th came out because I liked what I saw.

So I'm looking forward to seeing a Matrix at actually works.

[Medicineman]

Stahlseele suggested that I should bide my time and learn German until the German SR5 drops. I then wondered why nobody would back-translate the German SR5 into English and sold as Shadowrun 5 + German Engineering, and he pointed out that the German producers offered and CGL declined.

Hmmmp.
I don't know anything about that and I'm relatively close to Pegasus .
I'd like to know where Stahlseele is getting this Info

I am sorry if I am being obtuse, but I am curious, why would the German version necessarily be that much different than the English version? Maybe I missed a key post somewhere to explain how the errata would be that much of an improvement so sorry if this seems a dumb question.

The German versions usually are the Errattaed versions. Pegasus is in very close contact to CGL and the ommit everything they translate to CGL and while they translate they also proofread and correct mistakes (with a Go from CGL)
They also add German material (IIRC the German SR5 will have 2 or 4 more pages of pure german content about the ADL)



with an improved Dance
Medicineman

[DWC]

I'm extremely excited about a lot of the concepts, but I'm iffy on a bunch of the implementations. I like the idea of limits, but I think a lot of them look like they're too high. I like the faster hacking, but I'm extremely put off by the ham-fisted way players are being encouraged to make themselves vulnerable to it. I like the idea of changing how recoil works, but I'm annoyed that the book can't seem to not contradict itself on how it works. I like the return to Priorities (since I tend to play mundane humans), but I'm iffy on how it's going to handle the Quality Bloat coming with the character creation option supplement.

All in all, I'm looking forward to it. But it's going to grate on me a little bit if I see a lot of things that could have been done better.

[hermit]

Just a guess, but I think there may be other reasons they'd be hesitant to discuss concentration camp ghosts? I know there are laws in Germany about how you can and can't discuss the Holocaust.

There are laws against hate speech in America too, you know.

[Nal0n]

Cautiously Optimistic.

My plan is to get the PDF, give it a few test runs, houserule anything I do not like, and only play awakened characters for missions (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[branford]

There are laws against hate speech in America too, you know.

Respectfully, Hermit, what are the "hate speech" laws in America to which you refer. Absent VERY limited exceptions (e.g., incitement to a violation of criminal law that is both imminent and likely, civil defamation or fraud), the First Amendment essentially guarantees an individual's right to be as offensive, crass and hurtful as he or she wishes without interference from the government. Under certain circumstances, proof of speech targeting certain groups or individuals based upon protected characteristics (gender, religion, race, etc.) may impact a sentence rendered against a criminal defendant, but the language itself cannot be criminalized.

The USA, both federally and at the State level, has no equivalent to European and Canadian laws against Holocaust denial or speech that offends minorities. As a trial lawyer in New York City, if such laws existed, I can assure you that the courts would grind to a halt

[hermit]

Respectfully, Hermit, what are the "hate speech" laws in America to which you refer. Absent VERY limited exceptions (e.g., incitement to a violation of criminal law that is both imminent and likely, civil defamation or fraud), the First Amendment essentially guarantees an individual's right to be as offensive, crass and hurtful as he or she wishes without interference from the government. Under certain circumstances, proof of speech targeting certain groups or individuals based upon protected characteristics (gender, religion, race, etc.) may impact a sentence rendered against a criminal defendant, but the language itself cannot be criminalized.

The USA, both federally and at the State level, has no equivalent to European and Canadian laws against Holocaust denial or speech that offends minorities. As a trial lawyer in New York City, if such laws existed, I can assure you that the courts would grind to a halt

Oh. Well, I guess any possible reply would be against TOS, so thanks for the correction.

[Tashiro]

Now, Canada. Canada has laws against hate speech.
No complaints here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Sendaz]

No complaints here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Except for that whole part that it is Canada? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

*ducks*

[Tashiro]

Except for that whole part that it is Canada? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

*ducks*

Oh really?
Just for that, I'm revoking your maple syrup privileges. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[branford]

Oh. Well, I guess any possible reply would be against TOS, so thanks for the correction.

Before returning to our regularly scheduled SR5 program, I just want to emphasize that my recitation of the law in no way implies that I find hate speech acceptable. For example, I am Jewish and lost large portions of my family in the Holocaust. Neo-Nazis, bigots and Holocaust deniers will certainly receive no sympathy from me. However, I do agree with the American system that abhors criminalization of speech, but rather believes hateful speech is countered by yet more opposing speech.

Also note that the First Amendment only protects you from government reprisal. With some limited exceptions, bigotry often results in being fired from your job (if privately employed), restaurants and other businesses refusing to deal with you and general community shaming, without any potential for legal recourse - protections often available in other countries.

Lastly, and more importantly, I'm definitely excited for SR5 - wireless cyber-warts and all. I would also agree with the proposition that CGL likely (and wisely) intentionally avoids matters such as concentration camp ghosts and other sensitive subjects like real world religion and politics, except as allegory. As a general proposition, wading into real politics usually only serves to alienate some of your consumer base. In a small industry, when you want to reach the widest amount of customers worldwide, and earn a profit doing it, controversy is bad business.

This discussion of speech rights and role-playing reminds me of the arguments in the USA in the early 1980's that playing Dungeons & Dragons encouraged devil worship. Darn, I feel old . . .

[Draco18s]

Before returning to our regularly scheduled SR5 program, I just want to emphasize that my recitation of the law in no way implies that I find hate speech acceptable. For example, I am Jewish and lost large portions of my family in the Holocaust. Neo-Nazis, bigots and Holocaust deniers will certainly receive no sympathy from me. However, I do agree with the American system that abhors criminalization of speech, but rather believes hateful speech is countered by yet more opposing speech.

Ah, reminds me of an anti-semitic joke an ex-Jewish friend of mine made (targeted at himself).

I unfortunately cannot repeat it in any circumstances.

[hermit]

Before returning to our regularly scheduled SR5 program, I just want to emphasize that my recitation of the law in no way implies that I find hate speech acceptable.

Never took it as such.

I would also agree with the proposition that CGL likely (and wisely) intentionally avoids matters such as concentration camp ghosts and other sensitive subjects like real world religion and politics, except as allegory.

The quest to slay concentration camp ghosts (in context, and in blatant contradiction to Shadowrun canon, the actual souls of actual Holocaust victims) to gain the Scalpel of +3 Jew Mauling was published in War!, a CGL product and Jason Hardy's rather badly received first production. I agree, however, they better avoid ever publishing something like this (or inciting antiziganist progroms, for that matter) ever again.

This discussion of speech rights and role-playing reminds me of the arguments in the USA in the early 1980's that playing Dungeons & Dragons encouraged devil worship.

It is more like outrage about FATAL, however.

[Mäx]

I would also agree with the proposition that CGL likely (and wisely) intentionally avoids matters such as concentration camp ghosts and other sensitive subjects like real world religion and politics, except as allegory.

CGL sadly doesn't do that, concentration camp ghosts and "magical knife of jew slaying" is explicitly part of the setting.

[Sendaz]

This discussion of speech rights and role-playing reminds me of the arguments in the USA in the early 1980's that playing Dungeons & Dragons encouraged devil worship. Darn, I feel old . . .

By Baphomet's Blue Balls, we were DEMON worshippers back then, not devil worshippers!! Get it right! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

*ahem*

Yeah I remember those days as well, and the movie Mazes & Monsters didn't help.

I remember my first D&D game was basically lifting heavily from the setting of The Hobbit....

[Stahlseele]

CGL sadly doesn't do that, concentration camp ghosts and "magical knife of jew slaying" is explicitly part of the setting.

and they did it wrong too.

[branford]

Never took it as such.


The quest to slay concentration camp ghosts (in context, and in blatant contradiction to Shadowrun canon, the actual souls of actual Holocaust victims) to gain the Scalpel of +3 Jew Mauling was published in War!, a CGL product and Jason Hardy's rather badly received first production. I agree, however, they better avoid ever publishing something like this (or inciting antiziganist progroms, for that matter) ever again.


It is more like outrage about FATAL, however.

Ugg . . . I never purchased WAR! due to the "uneven" reviews and the purported lack of proper editing. If the book's contents are half as bad as you describe, well . . . words would fail me . . .

On a lighter note, Tashiro's Canadian patriotism and my flashback to the 1980's, fondly reminded me of the 1983 classic, Bob & Doug McKenzie: Strange Brew. I think CGL needs a supplement for running in the shadows in The Great White North in 2075. In Maplerun (or maybe, TimHortonsRun), shadowrunners are involved in the devilish machinations, underhanded dealings and cutthroat competition of mega-corporate breweries in the northern reaches of the UCAS.

BTW, what would the matrix bonus be if your donuts were online, +2 DP to all rolls for yummy, fattening goodness?

[Tashiro]

On a lighter note, Tashiro's Canadian patriotism and my flashback to the 1980's, fondly reminded me of the 1983 classic, Bob & Doug McKenzie: Strange Brew. I think CGL needs a supplement for running in the shadows in The Great White North in 2075. In Maplerun (or maybe, TimHortonsRun), shadowrunners are involved in the devilish machinations, underhanded dealings and cutthroat competition of mega-corporate breweries in the northern reaches of the UCAS.

BTW, what would the matrix bonus be if you donuts were online, +2 DP to all rolls for yummy, fattening goodness?

I might have to borrow that for my game. >.>
Hmm. If your donuts are online, then the flavour-control nanites can tailor the taste of each doughnut to your specific physiology, which grants a recovery of a point of Edge, if it's from Tim Horton's. It also, unfortunately, increases the chance of addiction, requiring one more Hit to resist. >.>

[branford]

I might have to borrow that for my game. >.>
Hmm. If your donuts are online, then the flavour-control nanites can tailor the taste of each doughnut to your specific physiology, which grants a recovery of a point of Edge, if it's from Tim Horton's. It also, unfortunately, increases the chance of addiction, requiring one more Hit to resist. >.>

What's the corporate status of Tim Horton's in 2075? Sadly, I think it would probably be a subsidiary of Aztechnology or Ares.

I hope you enjoy your soy donut (soynut?) with algae frosting with your steaming cup of soycaf. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lick.gif)

[hermit]

Ugg . . . I never purchased WAR! due to the "uneven" reviews and the purported lack of proper editing. If the book's contents are half as bad as you describe, well . . . words would fail me . . .

Well ... I could copypaste you the stuff in a PM if you want to, but ... I don't use hate speech lightly, and Pegasus doesn't censor books as they did with War! lightly too.

What's the corporate status of Tim Horton's in 2075? Sadly, I think it would probably be a subsidiary of Aztechnology or Ares.

Ares, probably, given their location. Maybe they once were Cross, though. It'd make them more interesting at least. Also, for all Canadians, there's a PDF on Montréal as a Shadowrun location.

[branford]

Ares, probably, given their location. Maybe they once were Cross, though. It'd make them more interesting at least. Also, for all Canadians, there's a PDF on Montréal as a Shadowrun location.

Hopefully, not Ares. Given its recent troubles, well . . ., let's just say I don't want insect (spirits) anywhere near my donuts! It's simply wrong.

Also, does Montreal really count as Canada in 2075? It is, after all, part of the country of Qeubec, and even worse, its French Canadian (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Does Tim Horton's even sell croissants? /sarc

[hermit]

Hopefully, not Ares. Given its recent troubles, well . . ., let's just say I don't want insect (spirits) anywhere near my donuts! It's simply wrong.

Unhygienic, too. Though given what my dad told me about his one-time work in a large bakery chain ... eww.

[Sendaz]

Just need to get your own personal KE/LS MCCDS-01 “DOUGH-MASTER”MOBILE COMMAND CENTER/DOUGHNUT SHOP from Rigger 4.

A rare joint effort between both Knight Errant and Lone Star Security, the MCCDS-01 was the brainchild of Ares engineer T. Horton (descendant maybe?) and an AI known only as “Dunkin.”

Built from an Ares Mob Master chassis and sporting two built in Doughnut making units it can bring the doughnut to you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Caution: Knight Errant and Lone Star will defend these things with their LIVES, so expect to get a little bloody trying to lay hands on one of these and with a 50F availability even the best fixer will be stretching to try and find one on the blackmarket.