Uncouth/Uneducated just as bad as ever, apparently they didn't learn the first time... Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Outline Switch to: Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Jaid]

So, some of you may remember some fairly extended debates that essentially boiled down to certain negative qualities being:

a) horrendously crippling to an extent that is completely absurd
b) completely different mechanically than the way they are described

uncouth and uneducated were two examples of such skills. in case you were wondering, they're still horrendously crippling, and they still don't make any sense.

an uncouth individual cannot default on social skills (ie cannot lie and is not even aware of the possibility of lying, cannot negotiate and is not even aware of the possibility of negotiating... ie can only accept initial offer or reject it - cannot intimidate people, cannot order people around, cannot understand the concept of either of those things happening, etc...) unless they learn the skill (which costs double, and in very short order will cost substantially more just to be able to use the skills that they should be able to use than it would have cost them to just not have the quality in the first place).

and uneducated once again means that you essentially don't know anything about anything. if you are not specifically trained in it, you don't even have the faintest idea of how anything works. you're not uneducated, you are anti-educated... you would have to have spent your entire life being brainwashed with all kinds of inaccurate information, and while that makes for a slightly amusing character concept it really doesn't make any sense at all for a standard quality to exist.

what's worse is how much you gain for these massive crippling flaws. 14 karma for uncouth (about 1/3 of what it was worth in SR4, and it was an outstandingly stupid idea to go near it even when it was 20 BP) and 8 karma for uneducated. seriously? 8 karma? what is this, some kind of sick joke? these qualities are like some kind of cruel noob trap designed to destroy the gaming experience of any sucker foolish enough to actually pick them up thinking that it will be anything remotely like what it says in the description.

why catalyst? why? there have been several threads where these qualities were discussed. what could possibly have possessed you to think that someone who is incapable of even imagining the possibility of lying or being lied to could ever be a viable human being, let alone a shadowrunner?

about the only good thing i can say is that at least infirm is gone. i would have preferred to see it merely changed to something reasonable (given that previously, the quality meant you could not jump, climb, swim, etc. not just that you couldn't do them well, mind you - you literally couldn't do them at all unless you were specially trained in those activities, making it more reasonable would not have been difficult). but i'd rather see it gone than see it come back exactly the same.

edit: and dagnabbit, i've just had my attention drawn to the absurdity of incompetence. it now applies to a full skill group, which is absolutely awful, and is only worth 5 karma. really? 5 karma? i could vaguely see some skill groups making sense for this, but what skill group is worth 5 karma? the only way this could ever *not* a complete disaster is if you're choosing it in something you would never in a million years use anyways.