[X] My Assistant

[Psikerlord]

mystic adepts should split their magic attribute. that would be fine.

[Thanee]

Well, mostly because you have to cast and sustain said spell. You need 2 hits to gain +1 REA and +1d6. This means that improved reflexes 3 (adept) is equal to having a constantly sustained Increase Reflexes 6 with all 6 hits and no focus to worry about. (or drain)

Mostly refering to this part here: "(Well, best until the magician can cast and maintain increased reflexes 10 for that 5d6)"

Why would this be a benefit for the Magician, but not for the Mystic Adept?

Bye
Thanee

[Thanee]

mystic adepts should split their magic attribute. that would be fine.

That's like it is now in SR4.

Bye
Thanee

[Elfenlied]

mystic adepts should split their magic attribute. that would be fine.

It would reduce them to niche and underpowered characters. Mystic Adepts need to stretch themselves very thin already to cover their bases. In SR4, people did this by utilizing Restricted Gear:Power Focus R4 to compensate for the magic loss.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It would reduce them to niche and underpowered characters. Mystic Adepts need to stretch themselves very thin already to cover their bases. In SR4, people did this by utilizing Restricted Gear:Power Focus R4 to compensate for the magic loss.

Nope, and Nope. Never once used a Power Focus to make up the split magic cost for my Mystic Adepts. Playing one now, with over 300 Karma, and Noone wouild ever have called him underpowered... Still does not have a Power Focus (though he is currently working on designing a Force 3 Netherworld Advisor Ally Spirit). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Elfenlied]

Nope, and Nope. Never once used a Power Focus to make up the split magic cost for my Mystic Adepts. Playing one now, with over 300 Karma, and Noone wouild ever have called him underpowered... Still does not have a Power Focus (though he is currently working on designing a Force 3 Netherworld Advisor Ally Spirit). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

From what you told us so far about your group, you guys prefer well-rounded characters with DPs of 12+ in their core competences, which is different than the optimization standard of the average SR player, which encourages softmaxing, DPs of 18+ and mechanically trimmed/powergamed characters. The most common (experienced) SR players I've gamed with are more along the lines of Neraph in terms of powergaming, for lack of a better terms. The characters tend to be waterproof and airtight, with minimized weaknesses and iteration proofing. In those groups, a Mystic Adept often feels like a fifth wheel, with some wonky stunts required to carve out his niche where he excels.

Not that I dislike your style. It would be a refreshing change to play/dm for a group of well-rounded characters, but alas, I play the hand I'm dealt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

From what you told us so far about your group, you guys prefer well-rounded characters with DPs of 12+ in their core competences, which is different than the optimization standard of the average SR player, which encourages softmaxing, DPs of 18+ and mechanically trimmed/powergamed characters. The most common (experienced) SR players I've gamed with are more along the lines of Neraph in terms of powergaming, for lack of a better terms. The characters tend to be waterproof and airtight, with minimized weaknesses and iteration proofing. In those groups, a Mystic Adept often feels like a fifth wheel, with some wonky stunts required to carve out his niche where he excels.

Not that I dislike your style. It would be a refreshing change to play/dm for a group of well-rounded characters, but alas, I play the hand I'm dealt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

*Hangs Head* Hi, My Name is Tymeaus, and I make Well-Rounded Characters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

No Worries, I get it. Though I have noticed that it is a bit more of a challenge to make a well rounded character with the Priority System of SR5, at least in the style I prefer, anyways. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[xsansara]

Well the problem here is the following:

Every player with their characters best interest in mind, will make a mystical adept, instead of a making a mage. The has the upside of less astral journeying in the game, but the flavour is seriously broken. Just think about it: make a mage, say a summoner. And then switch over to MysAd. See, you only have to shift a couple of free Karma points and voila some extras to have fun with.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well the problem here is the following:

Every player with their characters best interest in mind, will make a mystical adept, instead of a making a mage. The has the upside of less astral journeying in the game, but the flavour is seriously broken. Just think about it: make a mage, say a summoner. And then switch over to MysAd. See, you only have to shift a couple of free Karma points and voila some extras to have fun with.

Indeed, there is no real "Cost/Consequence" with the Mystic Adept. Sadly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Medicineman]

whats so bad about having some "extra Powerpoints for Fun " ?

with a nextra Funny Dence
Medicineman

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

whats so bad about having some "extra Powerpoints for Fun " ?

with a nextra Funny Dence
Medicineman

Nothing, as long as the others can have some extra Essence "for fun and profit."
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lantzer]

From what you told us so far about your group, you guys prefer well-rounded characters with DPs of 12+ in their core competences, which is different than the optimization standard of the average SR player, which encourages softmaxing, DPs of 18+ and mechanically trimmed/powergamed characters. The most common (experienced) SR players I've gamed with are more along the lines of Neraph in terms of powergaming, for lack of a better terms. The characters tend to be waterproof and airtight, with minimized weaknesses and iteration proofing. In those groups, a Mystic Adept often feels like a fifth wheel, with some wonky stunts required to carve out his niche where he excels.

Not that I dislike your style. It would be a refreshing change to play/dm for a group of well-rounded characters, but alas, I play the hand I'm dealt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I have not seen any characters with DP of 18+. In any of our games. 12-15 tops. One character had a 17 DP. What you see on Dumpshock is outside the envelope of normal games I've seen.
(SR 4A)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I have not seen any characters with DP of 18+. In any of our games. 12-15 tops. One character had a 17 DP. What you see on Dumpshock is outside the envelope of normal games I've seen.
(SR 4A)

Indeed... My table is hardly the special snowflake that it is often portrayed as here on Dumpshock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Thanee]

Nothing as long as the others can have some extra Essence "for fun and profit."
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah, why pay for anything at all? Just pick what you want. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yeah, why pay for anything at all? Just pick what you want. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee

Indeed... That should solve all the problems. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Sendaz]

I always thought it was weird that Mystic Adept are available at Priority C, same as regular Mages when if you think about they represent the next step up the chain so to speak, even with the loss of Astral projection.

To make them a bit rarer, why not bump the starting priority for a Mysad to B and try the following change:

Priority A Mysad: Magic 4, PP 4, Two Rating 5 Magical Skills, 5 Spells

Priority B Mysad: Magic 3, PP 3, Two Rating 4 Magical Skills, 3 Spells

They can still use their special stat points to raise the Magic stat. PP is not automatically raised to match, they still have to spend 5 Karma per additional PP with the max being equal to current level of Magic so if they want more they have to buy it up.
Likewise they can purchase spells for 5 karma each up to an amount of Magic x2 in spells for Chargen only, so max for Prio A is 8 spells unless they had raised magic during the creation phase with a cap of 12/14 (assuming someone went for that exceptional attribute) which would be 45 Karma spent just to max out starting spells which would be kind of silly when the 5-7 range will give you a decent start.

It is sort of a throwback to the earlier editions of magician adept to start, but they get a fair bit to start without having to shoot themselves in the foot karma-wise unless they want to be running hot out of the gate, but at the cost of not spending that karma on rounding out the character. They will grow faster since Initiation will help both the Magic and PP sides over time so they still have room to develop.

[RHat]

Well the problem here is the following:

Every player with their characters best interest in mind, will make a mystical adept, instead of a making a mage. The has the upside of less astral journeying in the game, but the flavour is seriously broken. Just think about it: make a mage, say a summoner. And then switch over to MysAd. See, you only have to shift a couple of free Karma points and voila some extras to have fun with.

So how much Karma do you typically have free on your Magicians? It's pretty easy to spend 50 Karma for a Magician, after all. And it's not "a couple of free Karma points", it's 5 per PP.

[Thanee]

I always thought it was weird that Mystic Adept are available at Priority C, same as regular Mages when if you think about they represent the next step up the chain so to speak, even with the loss of Astral projection.

I really don't think they are supposed to be "the next step up".

Full Magician is the top of the awakened types.

It's just that the rules for Mystic Adepts make them a weeeee bit too good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

They are supposed to be the "Jack of all Trades" magic type, not the "Yay! I got everything!" type.

Bye
Thanee

[xsansara]

Well time to crosspost http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...p;#entry1257755 for another try at house-ruling the mysAd. This time not a band-aid.

Now, the increased Karma costs are definitely a band-aid, and an ugly one at that, because, as RHat pointed out, they disallow customization of your new mage. One of the good things that SR5 chargen brought us. But, even at increased costs, taking the mysAd over a full mage is a no-brainer, I am sorry to say. It just forces you to forgo all fluff on the character.

[DMK]

The Hot Patch errata for Missions proposes that Mystic Adepts must take the Power Point option when initiating to gain any Power Points after chargen. I rather like this option. It means that after chargen a pure Adept or pure Magician will pull away from the MysAd in their own way.

[DMiller]

The Hot Patch errata for Missions proposes that Mystic Adepts must take the Power Point option when initiating to gain any Power Points after chargen. I rather like this option. It means that after chargen a pure Adept or pure Magician will pull away from the MysAd in their own way.

+1

(We really do need a +1, or like button (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

[RHat]

Well time to crosspost http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...p;#entry1257755 for another try at house-ruling the mysAd. This time not a band-aid.

Now, the increased Karma costs are definitely a band-aid, and an ugly one at that, because, as RHat pointed out, they disallow customization of your new mage. One of the good things that SR5 chargen brought us. But, even at increased costs, taking the mysAd over a full mage is a no-brainer, I am sorry to say. It just forces you to forgo all fluff on the character.

... Unless the full mage spends his karma on something other than being a better mage, the Mystic Adept is automatically a worse mage. It's not so much a loss of customization, anyways, as it is a distinct opportunity cost - you can choose not to take 6 Power Points, after all.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

... Unless the full mage spends his karma on something other than being a better mage, the Mystic Adept is automatically a worse mage. It's not so much a loss of customization, anyways, as it is a distinct opportunity cost - you can choose not to take 6 Power Points, after all.

Only if you consider not having Astral Projection as "being a worse mage." I do not , so.... You can have your Spells and Adept abilities too, and never actually suffer for it. And that is the problem.

[Elfenlied]

Only if you consider not having Astral Projection as "being a worse mage." I do not , so.... You can have your Spells and Adept abilities too, and never actually suffer for it. And that is the problem.

I believe this is a major contributor to people viewing Mystic Adepts as too strong. If the key advantage of magicians over mystic adepts is not properly used, then of course they will seem weak in comparison.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I believe this is a major contributor to people viewing Mystic Adepts as too strong. If the key advantage of magicians over mystic adepts is not properly used, then of course they will seem weak in comparison.

Chalk me up as one who actually dislikes Astral Reconnaissance. It is just not that big of a draw for me. It is useful, to be sure, but it is not THAT useful, in my opinion. Not so useful that its loss is detrimental or crippling. *shrug*