[X] My Assistant

[Voran]

Chalk me up as one who actually dislikes Astral Reconnaissance. It is just not that big of a draw for me. It is useful, to be sure, but it is not THAT useful, in my opinion. Not so useful that its loss is detrimental or crippling. *shrug*

Yeah, I guess because I'm kinda oldschool, I always ended up interpreting the Astral Recon stuff as, "Oh great, the rogue is off 'scouting' solo again. Lets go get some food while he monopolizes the GM for 30 minutes". The same later applied to the way I felt about integrating Deckers into an SR game. "Hey, Steve's doing matrix stuff, lets come back in 30 minutes."

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yeah, I guess because I'm kinda oldschool, I always ended up interpreting the Astral Recon stuff as, "Oh great, the rogue is off 'scouting' solo again. Lets go get some food while he monopolizes the GM for 30 minutes". The same later applied to the way I felt about integrating Deckers into an SR game. "Hey, Steve's doing matrix stuff, lets come back in 30 minutes."

Astral Recon in our games last all of about 20 Seconds. Long enough to Get a feel for what is going on, and make a Perception roll or two, and throw in the odd stealth roll. Descriptives follow and off we go. There is no need to spend minutes on such things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Voran]

Yeah, that's how we do it now too, usually just a glorified version of perception. But before, when it was actual recon, ugh....memories.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Only if you consider not having Astral Projection as "being a worse mage." I do not , so.... You can have your Spells and Adept abilities too, and never actually suffer for it. And that is the problem.

I think the point is while those PP are useful the mage will be spending those things on things like more spells, maybe bumping a low magic skill another focus or 2 that the mystake adept wont have making the mage a better mage. I think it is a bit overplayed since the mystic adept will likely be just as good at the core stuff and you are talking a couple spells and maybe a sustaining focus the mystake wont need since he has PP. You can't even move your magic from 6 to 7 with 30 Karma so if that is the "balance" I think it falls short by a wide margin. In game we will see the errata makes it a bit harder on the adept side.

As for astral recon, eh its okay and all but it doesn't do much more than the riggers micro drones. Any place that is magically interesting on the scout and not just perceive level is usually warded so I rarely see the value past perception.

[shonen_mask]

I think the point is while those PP are useful the mage will be spending those things on things like more spells, maybe bumping a low magic skill another focus or 2 that the mystake adept wont have making the mage a better mage. I think it is a bit overplayed since the mystic adept will likely be just as good at the core stuff and you are talking a couple spells and maybe a sustaining focus the mystake wont need since he has PP. You can't even move your magic from 6 to 7 with 30 Karma so if that is the "balance" I think it falls short by a wide margin. In game we will see the errata makes it a bit harder on the adept side.

As for astral recon, eh its okay and all but it doesn't do much more than the riggers micro drones. Any place that is magically interesting on the scout and not just perceive level is usually warded so I rarely see the value past perception.

The progression in the rules have magically aware characters more of an option. Spending the same character points, they won't be better at anything relative than a non magical character than the actual magic use...

My opinion, the only major issue is you now have an option between an augmented mage/aspected mage with a higher starting magic attribute, and a mystic adapt who can refuse augmentation.

Both just a little more unrealistic in SR4....

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I think the point is while those PP are useful the mage will be spending those things on things like more spells, maybe bumping a low magic skill another focus or 2 that the mystake adept wont have making the mage a better mage. I think it is a bit overplayed since the mystic adept will likely be just as good at the core stuff and you are talking a couple spells and maybe a sustaining focus the mystake wont need since he has PP. You can't even move your magic from 6 to 7 with 30 Karma so if that is the "balance" I think it falls short by a wide margin. In game we will see the errata makes it a bit harder on the adept side.

As for astral recon, eh its okay and all but it doesn't do much more than the riggers micro drones. Any place that is magically interesting on the scout and not just perceive level is usually warded so I rarely see the value past perception.

It is a matter of only a few spells, yes. In my experience, even with the Split in SR4A, a Mystic Adept is not all that far behind a Full Mage in effect, with Adept Abilities often providing things to the MysAd that more than compensate for losing a point or two of casting Magic.

Indeed... In fact, I often find that Rigger Recon is more comprehensive than Astral Recon is.

[shonen_mask]

It is a matter of only a few spells, yes. In my experience, even with the Split in SR4A, a Mystic Adept is not all that far behind a Full Mage in effect, with Adfept Abilities often providing things to the MysAd that more than compensate for losing a point or two of casting Magic.

Indeed... In fact, I often find that Rigger Recon is more comprehensive than Astral Recon is.

If you choose to stagnate the roleplaying potential of the rules then yes one element of the said rules will be more comprenhensive than another.
But calling the effort, results of playing a role playing game comprehensive? something based on a larger ruleset that essentially does not exist until it is created bt the playing group? It just says you prefer one guideline over another. Playing your way literally.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

If you choose to stagnate the roleplaying potential of the rules then yes one element of the said rules will be more comprenhensive than another.
But calling the effort, results of playing a role playing game comprehensive? something based on a larger ruleset that essentially does not exist until it is created bt the playing group? It just says you prefer one guideline over another. Playing your way literally.

Perhaps... That is definitley one way of looking at it. Sadly, Astral Recon has just never really been all that much of a benefit to me. Has absolutely nothing to do with Stagnation. Even when we DID do it extensively, it just never really added anything. In fact, Due to Wards and whatnot, Drones are FAR more effective than Atral Recon ever was, as far as I am concerned. *shrug*

[Smash]

I'm going to see how they play out, but I think they will need a nerf.

In the end I'll probably make players pick whether they want to be more magic or adept focussed. Thus if someone picks adept focus with magic 6 they can have 6 power-points but only cast at magic 3 or vice versa if magician focussed. Then I'll probably get them to pay 2-5 karma (most likely 2) for each point of magic they have both during and after character creation.

[X-Kalibur]

I'm rather fond of having mystic adepts aspect their mage side while giving them full magic value for both casting and powers.

[Shinobi Killfist]

It is a matter of only a few spells, yes. In my experience, even with the Split in SR4A, a Mystic Adept is not all that far behind a Full Mage in effect, with Adept Abilities often providing things to the MysAd that more than compensate for losing a point or two of casting Magic.

Indeed... In fact, I often find that Rigger Recon is more comprehensive than Astral Recon is.

I'm perfectly content with my mystic adept in 4e. He is a great face, rocker, utility mage. I went 2 magic/4 adept and he works out great IMO. And most importantly with the new sustaining focus he just got, he rocks 20 dice in synth guitar.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm perfectly content with my mystic adept in 4e. He is a great face, rocker, utility mage. I went 2 magic/4 adept and he works out great IMO. And most importantly with the new sustaining focus he just got, he rocks 20 dice in synth guitar.

Awesome... Mine is split 3 Sorcery and 2 Adept. He is a Face Occult Investigator. Speaks 13 Languages, and is a specialist in Protective and Manipulation Magic. And he is totally awesome. Doesn't play the Synth guitar, though. Sadly. Been trying to get with Harlequin (he was in Hong Kong for a bit) to rock a bit in the club and learn a thing or two about the instrument, though. *sigh* Maybe when we are done with the Artifact series, I can convince Frosty to put in a good word or two. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Shinobi Killfist]

Awesome... Mine is split 3 Sorcery and 2 Adept. He is a Face Occult Investigator. Speaks 13 Languages, and is a specialist in Protective and Manipulation Magic. And he is totally awesome. Doesn't play the Synth guitar, though. Sadly. Been trying to get with Harlequin (he was in Hong Kong for a bit) to rock a bit in the club and learn a thing or two about the instrument, though. *sigh* Maybe when we are done with the Artifact series, I can convince Frosty to put in a good word or two. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Funnily enough that is the series we are wrapping up now. I have to say, so far I've really liked the artifact series. I hope the conclusion lives up to the rest of the story.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Funnily enough that is the series we are wrapping up now. I have to say, so far I've really liked the artifact series. I hope the conclusion lives up to the rest of the story.

Indeed... It has been an amazing ride so far. I have high expectations on the ending. No matter how it is written, our GM will make it an amazing conclusion. Sadly, no Shadowrun this weekend, due to the Convention that it is town. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Stormdrake]

I'm rather fond of having mystic adepts aspect their mage side while giving them full magic value for both casting and powers.

personally, I like X-Kalibur's idea for addressing the Mystic Adept. I am not sure anything needs to change but if I have to house rule Mystic Adepts in my game that is the solution I will be trying. It's simple and easy to track with none of the I have four points in adept abilities and two in spell casting nonsense fourth insisted on using. Personal opinion only, I understand it worked for a lot of people and that's great. I just found it rather cumbersome sometimes.

[Stormdrake]

Sorry double post.

[shonen_mask]

personally, I like X-Kalibur's idea for addressing the Mystic Adept. I am not sure anything needs to change but if I have to house rule Mystic Adepts in my game that is the solution I will be trying. It's simple and easy to track with none of the I have four points in adept abilities and two in spell casting nonsense fourth insisted on using. Personal opinion only, I understand it worked for a lot of people and that's great. I just found it rather cumbersome sometimes.

I have to support the newer magic rules in SR5 also....

Weighing all options a force 10 or 12, or higher (gasp!) magician or mistic adept if he/she wishes can strike with great damage. With more risk of harm to self than any other character (due to drain).

But allowing total magic attribute for powers and magic just makes them more versitile. and if the rules of previous edition are an indicator, a mystic adept will most likely have to limit how their magic is used just by the weight of their choices in spells, powers, skills, etc, .....

So a mystic adept prefering illusions or chooses to improves skills not related to dmaging effects for example. They are nothing a group of runners or lone stars or corp guns cant handle with a few automatic weapons as is the norm....