SR5 Ramming Rules, Tricycles of Terror and Mr. Torgue's Wild Ride All In One! Options

[Tzeentch]

I see the ramming rules (SR5, p. 203) now range from the old Tricycles of Terror to the new Mr. Torgue's Wild EXPLOSION Adventure Ride which is hilarious.

(Fixed the examples, I think)

Movement Rate
So we're clear, here's a chart of the walking Movement Rates for vehicles converted to mph and kph. Vehicles have a "running" rate but there's mechanically little difference (but you have a -3 dice to ram someone within Running Rate distance). Multiply the speeds on the chart below by 2 to get the running rate.

CODE

Speed Attribute            MPH        KPH
1                           3.7        6
2                           7.4        12
3                           14.9       24
4                           29.8       48
5                           59.2       96
6                           119.3      192
7                           238.6      384
8                           477.2      768
9                           954.4      1536
10                          1908.8     3072

Ramming (SR5, p. 203)
Ramming is resisted with Body + (Armor -6). For game purposes let's assume Body 4, Armor 9 for Joe Shadowrunner. He's rolling 7 dice and can reasonably expect between 2-3 successes on average rolls. Let's assume he rolls hot all the time and gets 4 hits.

Dodge Scoot (Speed 3, Bod 4)
Suzuki Mirage (Speed 6, Bod 5)
Ford Americar (Speed 3, Bod 11) (Yes, it has a top speed of 30 mph)
GMC Banshee (Speed 8, Bod 20)

For these examples we're assuming the driver already "hit" with his Vehicle + reaction roll (no limit) versus a pedestrians Reaction + Intuition (no limit) or automatically succeeded against a barrier. The numbers below refer to the Damage Resistance Test.
You can Dodge too and guess what, doesn't matter if the vehicle is moving at lightspeed or 0.1 meter per Combat Turn it's just as easy or hard to get out of the way.

Scoot
Man, the scoot. In some older rules this thing could be a surprising terror because damage was entirely based on speed. Put Movement on this thing and you had yourself a small cruise missile.

-- A scoot moving at 1 meter per turn (0.74 mph) is DV 2. Null sweat, chummer your armor will soak that up.

-- A scoot moving at max running rate (c. 30 mph) is DV 4. Ok, could be hurtful I guess but probably won't even knock a chummer down. You may be asking "does the scooter stop?" Well good question. I assume it doesn't stop, because you then have to make a (rather trivial) Vehicle Test to remain in control.


Mirage
Zoom zoom. The ever-popular sport bikes.

-- Mirage at 1 meter per turn is DV 3. It may, if lucky, do some damage (at less than 1 mph, mind).

-- A Mirage moving at max running rate (c. 238 mph) should turn Joe Shadowrunner into roadkill, right? Right. DV 30 my friend, hope you have health insurance or roll hot on the Dodge test. Is that Physical damage? Good question chummer it doesn't say (I assume so). The bike takes DV 15 damage. I assume vehicles get their full armor (it doesn't say otherwise). So the Mirage rolls 11 dice, meaning it's probably going to take c. 17 damage. Note here that it doesn't matter what the bike hit, it takes DV 15. Hit a brick wall? DV 15. Hit a puppy? DV 15. Hit a fluffy mattress? DV 15.

-- Speaking or brick walls, you might want to notice that vehicles have no special rules here (that's fine). So Mirage versus brick wall: the wall is rolling 26 dice to resist your damage, for an average of 8-9 successes. So on average you are golden, chummer, blowing a 2 meter hole in the wall with your modified DV 20+. The bike takes DV 15 either way, which means it's not long for this world.

-- But what about a chain link fence? Well my friend, say goodbye to that fence because it only gets 14 dice (4-5 successes). So you're left with DV 25+ and taking out 4 or so meters of fencing.

(Note that hitting ANYTHING at top speed on the Mirage is NOT a good idea. You are also going to have problems driving through drywall because while you will blow a 10+ meter hole in the wall your bike is probably going to come unglued from the drywall/steel corrosion interaction or whatever.)


Ford Americar
Low Speed but high Body. Weird, right?

-- Moving at 1 meter per turn it will do DV 6. So an Americar will give you a decent lovetap if that soccer mom hits you when pulling out from the Stuffer Shack.

-- At the absolutely monstrous top speed of 30 mph the tires will be smoking, the RPM meter is firmly buried in the red, you can feel the raw power of the lawnmower engine that moves this beast at almost a THIRD highway speed. Whoah, chummer, you might want to scale back on this beast before your grandma chases you down on her electric scooter and gives you a ticket for reckless driving. With a maniacal laugh you plow into the first unlucky shadowrunner you see (they're everywhere man, like cockroaches). Take THAT criminal scum, taste .... DV 11 POWAH. Boom, that shadowrunner is runnin' scared now boyo, because if he gets hit that's 7 or so damage and he goes flying off the hood (to no game effect) and then shrugs his armored shoulders and goes about his day like getting hit by a "speeding" Americar is his thing. CURSES!

-- Be wary of taking the Americar against even chain link fences by the way, you could LOSE (your modified DV will be less than its Armor on a good resistance roll unless you rack up more hits). Hell, you can barely ram through furniture (and yes you could be stopped by the Armor of furniture). At least your Body and Armor can cancel the DV 6 hit from destroying some Ikea chairs.


GMC Banshee
Party like it's 2050 choombata!
Whoo break out the panzers and the Walter Jon Williams lawsuits because let's go ramming shit with this beast. Booya top speed of holy shit 950 mph. That's Mach 1.2 at sea level my friends. For what amounts to a flying brick. And it can remain balanced at that speed even moving a turret around and launching drones and shit because reasons. Technology, my friends. The Banshee has it, and it doesn't even have wireless bonuses yet. So how does the Banshee do against armored Joe Shadowrunner and that fiendish brick wall that has stymied many a lesser vehicle?

-- Well Joe Shadowrunner would be shitting his pants at the sound of this thing, except for the fact that you Dodge a Mach 1.2 panzer just as easily (or as difficult) as a scoot going 1 mph. Matrix reflexes mothafukka! Hear that thing coming I'm doing the limbo while the Banshee goes screaming off to try and make another pass (presumably the next Combat Turn if your GM isn't paying attention to spatial configurations).

-- So the Banshee is crawling along at 1 meter per turn. It's Sneaking man. The Banshee is like the ultimate urban predator. Hear that sound in the alley? Could be a Banshee creeping up to nudge you for DV 10. That's right chummer, if this thing even TOUCHES you it could be goodnight unless you are tough as nails and the operator was asleep at the rig. So when the Banshee hits you at less than 1 mph it will put your ass in the dirt unless you are tough and pretty damn lucky. The Banshee takes DV 5 but I wouldn't even bother rolling for that.

-- How about Mach 1.2 right up your drekhole? Well, the Banshee will eat you. It will flip you over and hit your weak spot for maximum damage; it will boom headshot (headram?) you; soon you will be pushing up daisies in the Barrens; in one Combat Turn and a bad Dodge roll your character will be joining the Choir Invisible. You will (almost) cease to be as you are reduced to a shower of gore and unfulfilled dreams. If your GM was really nice the spot where you died to the Banshee will be a Background Count 1 spot just to stick it to those damn Awakened. Take THAT, wagemage! At max speed you are doing DV 200. Yes, two-hundred smackers. You're also TAKING DV 100 if you so much as clip a bird (hey man, that's collision damage rules as written, suck it up panzerjock, at least you killed the bird). I won't even bother going over the damage. You're Dead Jim. You're so far past overflow damage that the other players will have to pour out their Mountain Dew on your character sheet to give their final respects because there's nothing left to even sell to the bodybank. Hell, if you character sheet explodes in a flash of fire, don't be surprised. That's how far past overflow you are. The very memory of your character may be erased. It's like he never existed chummer. Who are we even talking about? EXACTLY.

-- But how about those walls? Where the Banshee is going it won't NEED walls. Fuck walls. 1.21 gigawatts of ramming power is in these turbines. The Banshee looks at walls and goes "I don't see a wall." And then it instantly blows up as soon as it crashes through one. EXPLOSIONS! Chummer, see that blast bunker? Well it's rolling about 40 dice on the low end to resist our ramming power. The Banshee don't care. The Banshee is averaging about DV 180 even after that. That bunker is DONE FOR. Hell, you're going to be knocking 10+ meter HOLES in that bunker. And then to top it off you explode, so break out those even crazier chunky salsa explosion rules for whatever was inside.

FUCK YOU PHYSICS, NOTHING CAN STOP THE BANSHEE
-- Don't think your Banshee will explode? Chummer I have some sad news for you. You see, your Banshee is taking DV 100 from that death AND glory attack. The Banshee at best is rolling 38 dice to resist, so cut to a montage sequence showing the life of your rigger flashing before their eyes and then sad music starts playing. If you're lucky it will pan over to the troll teammate who has a single manly tear rolling down his face, and when asked if he's crying he will say "Nah chummer, I musta' got sumthin' in ma' eye." Roll credits.

TLDR Here Are Some Questions

• Does Ramming do Physical damage? (I assume so)
• Is Dodging modified by vehicle speed? (it's not currently)
• Do you stop after a successful ram? What about an unsuccessful one?
• A Body 1 drone moving at Mach 20 only does DV 10. I assume it's intentional that kinetic energy doesn't come into play in any way here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DeathStrobe]

Hm...weaponized Banshees... That's a very expensive missile to fire, but it would be cool to be a rigger and pilot it from the ground. Sure you'll suffer dumpshock, and another question is if you'll have to resist the biofeedback too...'cause that'll probably flatline you even in cold sim VR. But if you switch modes just before the crash, you have a very expensive and impractical dragon slayer weapon and you might even be able to live to tell the tale.

[Tzeentch]

Major Hector Mendoza should have brushed up on the ramming rules. If he had, that would have made the battle against Sirrugh a lot shorter.

[Umidori]

I'm highly confused.

What the frag are you talking about with things like "the bike is probably going to get at least 9 net hits" and "So Mirage versus brick wall. You probably won't even get a single net hit even ramming it at over 200 mph"?

The bike doesn't roll anything except damage resistance. The driver does. They roll Vehicle Skill + Reaction. The target gets a chance to dodge and rolls Reaction + Intuition if a pedestrian, Reaction + Intuition [Handling] if a vehicle, and nothing if a Barrier, as they can't dodge.

If you want to ram a brick wall with a Suzuki Mirage, you automatically succeed unless you critically glitch, because the Ram is treated like a Melee Attack, in this case Destroying A Barrier, and the wall can't dodge.

If you want to ram a person or a vehicle, you roll against their standard Melee Dodge. If they dodge, you miss. If they don't, you hit and calculate damage.

Where are you getting all these different things about different vehicles getting net hits on the ram test? The damage resistance stuff I get, but not your numbers regarding the ramming test itself.

If you drive a Mirage full speed into a wall, you're gonna do DV 30 (+ Net Hits on the the Vehicle Skill + Reaction roll of the pilot) to the wall, which it stages down with 10 Structure + 16 Armor, averaging about 9 hits, inflicting 21+ damage, and creating a 2 square meter hole in the wall. Then the bike itself has to stage down half of that amount with it's 5 Body and 6 Armor, averaging about 4 hits, taking 11+ damage, totaling the bike. The pilot also has to resist the same amount of damage as the bike with their own Body + Armor + Modifiers, so they're probably in Physical Overflow at this point.

Oh, and you don't make a Vehicle Test to remain in control of the bike. For one thing, the bike no longer exists once you ram that wall. For another thing, the driver probably doesn't either. And finally, the GM has the power to simply state that a vehicle has crashed for whatever reason. This is one of those times.

~Umi

[Tzeentch]

The bike doesn't roll anything except damage resistance. The driver does. They roll Vehicle skill + Reaction. The target rolls Reaction + Intuition if a pedestrian, Reaction + Intuition [Handling] if a vehicle, and nothing if a Barrier.

-- Like I said in the first post, I assume you already succeeded at the hitting part (after Dodge and all that jazz). All the rolling in the examples is for damage from the ram itself. I'll make it more clear in the opener.

[Umidori]

You don't roll for damage after hitting. You calculate it. It's a flat value of Body x (Speed Multiplier) + Net Hits from the Ram Test.

The Mirage hitting the brick wall doesn't get 30 dice to roll to determine damage (which I assume is how you got 9-11 hits average). It just has a base damage of 30, which then gets boosted by 1 for each net hit the pilot had on the Ramming Test. For a guy with Pilot Ground Vehicles 3 and a Reaction of 7, that's 3 extra damage on average. The brick wall stages down 33 damage, the bike stages down 16 or 17 (not sure how it rounds), and the driver stages down the same as the bike. End of story.

It's exactly like hitting someone with a baseball bat. The bat does a flat amount of damage (calculated from the weilder's Strength, in this case let's say 9P), which then gets boosted by 1 for each net hit the attacker had on the Clubs Test. You do not roll extra damage dice equal to the bat's DV of 9 and add the hits to the damage total, which is the sort of thing you seem to be doing with the vehicle ramming. You just calculate the damage, and the victim resists it.

~Umi

[Tzeentch]

You don't roll for damage after hitting. You calculate it. It's a flat value of Body x (Speed Multiplier) + Net Hits from the Ram Test.

Derp. That's what I get for skipping SR4. I think I fixed all the examples. So no more possibility of bouncing off tanks you straight up explode on contact.

[Umidori]

It looks sane now! Huzzah! "Good jorb!", as they say.

~Umi

[BishopMcQ]

Tzeentch--I was laughing until it hurt with the Banshee. Thank you for restoring my faith.

[Blade]

That post was a lot of fun, thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CeeJay]

SR5 ramming ridiculousness.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
Thank you very much for that one.

-CJ

[cryptoknight]

Tzeentch--I was laughing until it hurt with the Banshee. Thank you for restoring my faith.

The Banshee is apparently the new Thor Javelin. No need for a satellite to fire them down on dragons... Just put a few circling Banshees at high altitude and call one down as necessary.

[Sendaz]

The Banshee is apparently the new Thor Javelin. No need for a satellite to fire them down on dragons... Just put a few circling Banshees at high altitude and call one down as necessary.

*singing 'It's Raining Ban(shee)'* with apologies to The Weather Girls

[RelentlessImp]

*singing 'It's Raining Ban(shee)'* with apologies to The Weather Girls

I'm so sorry.

Hi - Hi! We're your Weather Girls - Ah-huh -
And have we got news for you - You better listen!
Get ready, all you lonely girls
and leave those respirators at home. - Alright! -

Overwatch is rising - Safety's getting low
According to all sources, the street's the place to go
Cause tonight for the first time
Just about half-past ten
For the first time in history
It's gonna start raining Banshees!

It's Raining Banshees! Hallelujah! - It's Raining Banshees! Amen!
I'm gonna go out to run and let myself get
Absolutely clear of Ground Zero!
It's Raining Banshees! Hallelujah!
It's Raining Banshees! Every VTOL!
Large, humming, dark and lean
Fast and tough and explosive and mean

God bless Mother Necessity, she's running too
She took off to heaven and she did what she had to do
She taught every rigger to rearrange the sky
So that each and every rigger could find their escape route
It's Raining Banshees! Hallelujah! - It's Raining Banshees! Amen!
It's Raining Banshees! Hallelujah!
It's Raining Banshees! Ame---------nnnn!

I feel humming engines / Moving in, about to begin
Hear the sonic boom / Don't you lose your head
Take cover and run for your bed!

God bless Mother Necessity, she's running too
She took off to heaven and she did what she had to do
She taught every rigger to rearrange the sky
So that each and every rigger could find their escape route
It's Raining Banshees! Yeah!

Overwatch is rising - Safety's getting low
According to all sources, the street's the place to go
Cause tonight for the first time
Just about half-past ten
For the first time in history
It's gonna start raining Banshe~es!

It's Raining Banshees! Hallelujah! - It's Raining Banshees! Amen!
It's Raining Banshees! Hallelujah! - It's Raining Banshees!

[Sendaz]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

A few rough spots as its hard getting the words to fit sometimes, but a damn fine job overall (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Need to put together a SR cover CD of best running songs. Maybe even get some live people to sing these , unfortunately not myself as past attempts have been compared to the sound of a live cat dying in a meat grinder.

Bet we can even coerce Opti and his Anarchist broadcast to air it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Makki]

so what if my Body 10 troll is rampaging through a crowd on his rollerskates? Assuming he doesn't take swings, he is more or less ramming people.

[CeeJay]

It's interesting that ramming damage only derives from the ramming vehicle's speed and not from relative speed.

Imagine a game of chicken between me on my scoot and Roadmaster. We collide frontally at top speed. Now, if it was the Roadmaster that did the ramming, I'm reduced to a red spot on the road, but if I somehow time it so, that I am the ramming person, we will both escaped virtually unharmed...
And to add insult to (none)injury, the Roadmaster's driver has to make the harder crash test. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-CJ

[Draco18s]

so what if my Body 10 troll is rampaging through a crowd on his rollerskates? Assuming he doesn't take swings, he is more or less ramming people.

That's what, Speed 1?
He'd be like a Banshee in slow-mo. Tapping people for 10 DV and resisting 5.

[Nath]

It's interesting that ramming damage only derives from the ramming vehicle's speed and not from relative speed.

Imagine a game of chicken between me on my scoot and Roadmaster. We collide frontally at top speed. Now, if it was the Roadmaster that did the ramming, I'm reduced to a red spot on the road, but if I somehow time it so, that I am the ramming person, we will both escaped virtually unharmed...
And to add insult to (none)injury, the Roadmaster's driver has to make the harder crash test. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It would be settled by initiative score and who get to move "first". It's a sort of subset of Zeno's Paradox.

[Draco18s]

It would be settled by initiative score and who get to move "first". It's a sort of subset of Zeno's Paradox.

Good ol' Zeno.

Also, I'm starting to formulate better crash rules, involving the differences of body (and speed) because hitting a pigeon should involve no change in speed to the Banshee (therefore no damage) because the mass of the pigeon is so small.

(That whole F=MA thing)

[Seerow]

That's what, Speed 1?
He'd be like a Banshee in slow-mo. Tapping people for 10 DV and resisting 5.

I'd give him speed 2 or 3 looking at that chart. Aren't skates in Shadowrun something like base move speed x2-4? Pretty sure 30mph isn't unreasonable at all.

[Draco18s]

I'd give him speed 2 or 3 looking at that chart. Aren't skates in Shadowrun something like base move speed x2-4? Pretty sure 30mph isn't unreasonable at all.

I'm not actually sure what the top speed of a troll on skates would be.

[Sendaz]

Next on Mythbusters


The Myth of the Rollerblading Troll squashed my Americar......

[RelentlessImp]

"We're gonna have to call this one..."

*Giant CONFIRMED stamp hits screen*

[Seerow]

I'm not actually sure what the top speed of a troll on skates would be.

Didn't they change movement speed so it's based on agility now? Anyone know that formula? Also are skates or cyberskates in the core book at all, or do we have to wait for a gear book for that?