Wireless bonus rules suck., Lets write the tacnet rules they should have used. Options

[Epicedion]

Ah, but you can combine multiple options (goggles and contacts, earbuds and a microphone...).

Contacts are always wireless -- they don't have a universal data port to support a wire, and there's no skinlink. The only way to control their visual modes is to have them wireless-enabled. If you want to get really technical, they have to be wireless-enabled all the time as they have no actual controls that would allow you to turn the wireless on and off.

The microphone + earbuds idea is a neat trick to get around capacity, but also note that only cyberears get Dampers, Balance Augmenters, or Select Sound Filters rated higher than 3.

[Medicineman]

You could use Contact lenses for Low Light and Flash Compensation as they won't need WiFI for these Enhancements .

HougH!
Medicineman

[Voran]

Depends on your group tho. Some might like the Ghost in the Shell aspect of hacking a cyber person and making Batou punch himself in the face with his own cyberarm. On the other hand, turning PCs into NPCs due to 'haha possession!' or stuff is really dependent on knowing your group and what their tolerances are. If they start feeling you as the GM are trying to WIN, and can obviously do so by crafting a world full of cheap-shots, they may not respond well. They might, but as I said, know your group.

It seems a little unfair to single out the cyber-guy for raaaaaape, or make them feel like they're forced to limit their playstyle cause 1)no one in the group decided to be a decker, so 2)no one can protect them from a near-level or equal or better NPC decker intent on messing with them.

[KCKitsune]

and the fact that deckers can hack your cyberware proves my point of view is the correct one.

And the fact that your Point of View proves correct thoroughly shows how insanely stupid the idea of Wireless Bonuses for Cyberware is. *shrug*

i am, however, somewhat more dependant on my central nervous system, eyes, and ears, and am inclined to feel slightly more concerned about the possibility of something happening to them.

Other than Vision Enhancement, every other vision mod does NOT have a wireless bonus! So you don't need to frag around with having things on the Matrix.

EDIT: ninja'd by a few people

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Other than Vision Enhancement, every other vision mod does NOT have a wireless bonus! So you don't need to frag around with having things on the Matrix.

EDIT: ninja'd by a few people

Problem is that is you want to use your smartlink online, and you have an image link in your eyes, your eyes are just as susceptible to being attacked as the smartlink is. This is Stupid on so many levels it is insane. As many people have also said.

[Slide]

Problem is that is you want to use your smartlink online, and you have an image link in your eyes, your eyes are just as susceptible to being attacked as the smartlink is. This is Stupid on so many levels it is insane. As many people have also said.

Bust out the data jack (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Slide]

I just thought of something else, how is hacking your cyber eyes with high powered cyber deck fundimentaly any worse than me using a $20 laser to hack your real eyes?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Bust out the data jack (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Which still does not protect you if your smartlink is still wireless, and it is communicating to your Datajack (via a wire or wireless). So now, not only is your smartlink still at risk, your Datajack and Eyes are now vulnerable, instead of just your Eyes. See the issue yet?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I just thought of something else, how is hacking your cyber eyes with high powered cyber deck fundimentaly any worse than me using a $20 laser to hack your real eyes?

Considering I can avoid the laser, it is very different.

[Slide]

Considering I can avoid the laser, it is very different.

SPEED OF LIGHT!!! Good luck, chummer. Invest in IC and Agents.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

SPEED OF LIGHT!!! Good luck, chummer. Invest in IC and Agents.

Your Aim is not speed of light, nor millimeter perfect. So, who cares how fast the laser is, it is irrelevant. Bullets are effectively faster than you can dodge, and yet, how many rounds are expended in a combat? What is the ratio of hits to expended ammunition? *shrug*

[Slide]

No its not, if you are ducking and dodging to avoid a laser in your eyes I still win. and if you say its not powerfull enough I'll invest a 25k, a fraction of a good cyber deck, and still blind you. Invest in some cyber security. at least enough to give you the time to turn off wireless capablities of all of your equipment. What sort of action was that again?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

No its not, if you are ducking and dodging to avoid a laser in your eyes I still win. and if you say its not powerfull enough I'll invest a 25k, a fraction of a good cyber deck, and still blind you. Invest in some cyber security. at least enough to give you the time to turn off wireless capablities of all of your equipment. What sort of action was that again?

You are obviously under the mistaken assumption that I endorse Wireless Bonuses. I can see no reason to EVER have wireless capabilities turned on, for any character in SR5 (Save a Decker, using his Deck, or a Rigger using his console). Talk about sheer stupidity (wireless being turned on, natch). Now, had they actually put together something that would truly incentivize having wireless on, then maybe I would consider it, but as it stands now, it is jut dumb. *shrug*

[Rystefn]

Considering I can avoid the laser, it is very different.

You can avoid hacking, too. What's the difference?

[Slide]

You are obviously under the mistaken assumption that I endorse Wireless Bonuses. I can see no reason to EVER have wireless capabilities turned on, for any character in SR5 (Save a Decker, using his Deck, or a Rigger using his console). Talk about sheer stupidity (wireless being turned on, natch). Now, had they actually put together something that would truly incentivize having wireless on, then maybe I would consider it, but as it stands now, it is jut dumb. *shrug*

now the wireless bonuses making sense, and the wireless bonuses being useful are two diffrent things. +1 to dice pool on perception checks per level from vision enhancment? yes. Stacking wired reflexes and reflex enhancers? yes. +2 too me shooting? yes. using my com to comunicate wordlessly with allies? yes. Might be marginal advantages, but marginal advantages are life and death in a fight. And if you have enough security to find out that some one is hacking you have enough to turn off wireless.

As I said, I don't agree that all of these bonuses should be wireless but thats a diffrent can of worms.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You can avoid hacking, too. What's the difference?

Difference is the stated design goals of the developers. They wanted to make Hacking universal (How the hell they came up with that idea, while eliminating almost all hacking is well beyond me, based upon their logic/Implementation for the matrix) so that Hackers (Deckers/Technomancers) had "something to do" in combat (which is just silly, since Hackers ALREADY had plenty to do in combat - Said from years of actually playing a fairly powerful hacker over the course of several years). And then they give us a half-assed, ham-handed system to implement that design goal (with Wireless Bonuses even the Author said were picked randomly, with no thought to how or why, because they were cool, rather than making sense). And if the solution is to just not go wireless, then they have failed at their stated design goal.

See, that is a HUGE difference.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

now the wireless bonuses making sense, and the wireless bonuses being useful are two diffrent things. +1 to dice pool on perception checks per level from vision enhancment? yes. Stacking wired reflexes and reflex enhancers? yes. +2 too me shooting? yes. using my com to comunicate wordlessly with allies? yes. Might be marginal advantages, but marginal advantages are life and death in a fight. And if you have enough security to find out that some one is hacking you have enough to turn off wireless.

As I said, I don't agree that all of these bonuses should be wireless but thats a diffrent can of worms.

And my issue is that NONE of these make any sense. They are a random selection of things the author thought would be cool, (his own words) with absolutely no thought to what was actually being implemented. And the fact that the implementation does not make any sense when considering the ramifications (and actual rules/text in the book) of Bricking (Sparks, Melting metal and plastic, etc.) internal ware, well it is just that much more ludicrous. They say one thing, then when confronted with the actual rules they wrote, backpedal and say "well, that is what happens, but for internal ware, that does not actually mean anything." I call BS. *shrug*

[Slide]

so what you are saying is that you think the bonuses are worth taking but don't like it because it makes no logical sense to you?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

so what you are saying is that you think the bonuses are worth taking but don't like it because it makes no logical sense to you?

No... I am saying the bonuses ARE NOT WORTH TAKING, and they MAKE NO SENSE (which even the author admitted... He was going for Rule of Cool, rather than making Sense).

[Stahlseele]

No... I am saying the bonuses ARE NOT WORTH TAKING, and they MAKE NO SENSE (which even the author admitted... He was going for Rule of Cool, rather than making Sense).

and let's not forget that the author thought it was enough to slave the things to the comlink and you'd only need a PAN-Connection, not a Matrix-Conncection for them to work . .

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

and let's not forget that the author thought it was enough to slave the things to the comlink and you'd only need a PAN-Connection, not a Matrix-Conncection for them to work . .

That too... Left Hand not talking to the Right Hand. Epic fail all the way around. *sigh*

[Abschalten]

so what you are saying is that you think the bonuses are worth taking but don't like it because it makes no logical sense to you?

Shit, I think they're only marginally useful bonuses and they don't make any logical sense. It's no sweat for me to ignore them.

[Rystefn]

Difference is the stated design goals of the developers. They wanted to make Hacking universal (How the hell they came up with that idea, while eliminating almost all hacking is well beyond me, based upon their logic/Implementation for the matrix) so that Hackers (Deckers/Technomancers) had "something to do" in combat (which is just silly, since Hackers ALREADY had plenty to do in combat - Said from years of actually playing a fairly powerful hacker over the course of several years). And then they give us a half-assed, ham-handed system to implement that design goal (with Wireless Bonuses even the Author said were picked randomly, with no thought to how or why, because they were cool, rather than making sense). And if the solution is to just not go wireless, then they have failed at their stated design goal.

See, that is a HUGE difference.

No, that is a HUGE non-sequitur. I have the ability, right now, to burn out someone's meat eyes with nothing more than what I have sitting on my desk IRL. So how is it such a heinous crime for a game system to allow for the possibility of a hacker to burn out your robot eyes?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

No, that is a HUGE non-sequitur. I have the ability, right now, to burn out someone's meat eyes with nothing more than what I have sitting on my desk IRL. So how is it such a heinous crime for a game system to allow for the possibility of a hacker to burn out your robot eyes?

Your ability to TRY and burn someone's eyes out with your desk implement is irrelevant. I could stab a letter opener through someone's eye. That does not impact the argument at all.

A HACKER should NEVER HAVE ACCESS TO THOSE CYBER EYES. They should never be online in the first place. And even assuming that they are (which is a massive assumption, because no one would put their ability to see at such risk - because it IS a significant risk), they should far take more than an action or two to completely destroy, which is what Bricking actually does per the book's Definition and effects (look em up and see... Dev's/Writer's protests notwithstanding). Yes, if you have been captured, and someone hardlines your cyber through your Datajack, well, you have more problems than being bricked. But that is a risk. Just walking along and having someone screw you over because they can, on a whim (and in SR5, it is exactly that, a whim), well, that is just asinine. The counter argument that a low-lifestyle wage slave is going to invest in 5,000-8,000 Nuyen worth of electronics to keep it from happening is just ludicrous. Hell, the fact that cyberware costs increased so much makes the assumption just ludicrous. Goes to show that the developers really did not understand Economics (or chose to ignore it so they could get the Retro SR2-3 feel back into the game).

[Stahlseele]

No, that is a HUGE non-sequitur. I have the ability, right now, to burn out someone's meat eyes with nothing more than what I have sitting on my desk IRL. So how is it such a heinous crime for a game system to allow for the possibility of a hacker to burn out your robot eyes?

now imagine i could do that, to you, from my bed, without you knowing how, why, from where, when and being unable to defend yourself against it.
i don't have to restrain you. i don't even have to be on the same continent as you. not even on the same planet technically speaking . .
because you have to wear glasses that will allow me to focus them in such a way that the light hitting them will be enough to burn out your eyes.
and you can not take these glasses off at all either. or make them inaccessible to me. all that and so much more. and all that and so much more why?
because the makers of your glasses decided that it needs to be this way so they can send advertising your way and to inform you that you need new ones because your eyes are degrading further, neccessating stronger lenses.