Wireless bonus rules suck., Lets write the tacnet rules they should have used. Options

[RHat]

Attack 7, Logic 6( 8 ), Cracking 6 and Hammer offers a pool of 14 and damage of 9 + net hits. PR3 Lieutenant gets 9 dice to defend. Assume DR2 for the target item, so 9 damage boxes and 6 dice for soak. All told, there's a 52.65% chance of instantly bricking the item, which can be a pretty useful thing - not as useful as killing the guy, but you probably don't get a 50/50 shot of that. Taking away the enemy lieutenant's primary form of attack, for example, can be very useful.

[BigGreenSquid]

you seem to have misunderstood how the matrix works in SR5. it doesn't matter how many things you use in between a device and everything else. the entire matrix is based on the fact that you can bounce your signal through everyone else's stuff. it's just how the matrix works in SR5.

Looking at this from an IC hackers perspective, yes GOD may want you to have all of your devices appearing in the matrix as icons, even the ones you don't want anyone to know about. However, I'm a hacker. I don't really care what the rules are, if they don't work for me, I'll tweak them until they do.

It is not enough to merely slave my stuff to my cyberdeck. I want more than just a firewall to defend my PAN. Behind my firewall I will set up an IDS and transparent proxy on my cyberdeck, and close all other ports. All traffic through my cyberdeck will be through the proxy. I will then NAT my CommCode/MatrixID/IP address to all of my devices using a point-to-point subnet. In each one of my devices I will drop the signal strength down to a 1m range. At this point all of my devices would be able to be "online," however from the Matrix only my cyberdeck could be seen and anyone would have to come within 1m to detect the broadcast from any devices.

Just because the Matrix wants you to be stupid does not mean you have to play along, especially as a hacker.

[BigGreenSquid]

I could see a TacNet as a very upgraded version of the modern BFT.

http://www.viasat.com/government-communica...-force-tracking

The TacNet would comprise several interlocking functions. First, using satellite mapping, GPS positioning, and weather/atmospheric information combined with sensor feeds from individual sensor platforms (squad members, drones, vehicles) the TacNet would proceed to build a 3D battlefield map with all known forces.

Second, using the live map the TacNet would calculate fields of fire, plot azimuth/angle trajectories for indirect fire, and offer tactical suggestions.

Using a image link, the TacNet could paint targets (blue=friendly / red=hostile) and provide a color coded transparency/outline in a users vision of targets which may not be visible due to LOS. For example you could see an outline of a soldier hiding behind a tree as long as one sensor platform had eyes on the target. Using targeting information and AR displays, a shooter with a smartgun could fire accurately while remaining almost entirely in a covered position.

Finally, the TacNet encrypts the entire network into a single hidden node. As the TacNet would most likely be run off of the deckers cyberdeck, it would stay hidden as an opposed Computer + Intuition
[Data Processing] v. Logic + Sleaze Test using the cyberdecks sleaze.

[Medicineman]

however from the Matrix only my cyberdeck could be seen

Nope
Everything is visible (even Stealth connections) thems the new Rules

I will drop the signal strength down to a 1m range.

You could do this in SR4A (Signals Str0 = 3 Meters) but you can't do that in SR5 anymore.
Minimum is 100 Meters

Just because the Matrix wants you to be stupid does not mean you have to play along, especially as a hacker.

for not "playing along" You need Houserules (sadly)

HougH!
Medicineman

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Attack 7, Logic 6( 8 ), Cracking 6 and Hammer offers a pool of 14 and damage of 9 + net hits. PR3 Lieutenant gets 9 dice to defend. Assume DR2 for the target item, so 9 damage boxes and 6 dice for soak. All told, there's a 52.65% chance of instantly bricking the item, which can be a pretty useful thing - not as useful as killing the guy, but you probably don't get a 50/50 shot of that. Taking away the enemy lieutenant's primary form of attack, for example, can be very useful.

Completely and utterly immune to it if that lieutenant turns off the wireless (or never had it active to start with). So, now, what is the Hacker gonna do? Oh wait, there is still communications, remote rigged devices and tacnets. EXACTLY what was available in SR4A. NO NEED to make the cyber guy susceptible to the stupidity of wireless bonuses and bricking whatsoever. *shrug*

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

for not "playing along" You need Houserules (sadly)

HougH!
Medicineman

Naah... just remove wireless form everything that has no need of being on the Matrix in the first place. That is called using throwbacks, and is described in the books. Good luck hacking any of my stuff in SR5. I will make an enemy hacker absolutely useless when it comes to bricking my stuff.

[BigGreenSquid]

for not "playing along" You need Houserules (sadly)

At this point, it will be at least a year before I switch my game over, I'll see if JH backs down from to this retardedness in the matrix splatbook. If not... Well, it will be my turn to become a grognard. Everyone at my table works in IT/telecom and I will not impose this level of stupidity on them.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

At this point, it will be at least a year before I switch my game over, I'll see if JH backs down from to this retardedness in the matrix splatbook. If not... Well, it will be my turn to become a grognard. Everyone at my table works in IT/telecom and I will not impose this level of stupidity on them.

Indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Sendaz]

In a surprise move to encourage wireless use on their weapons line, Ares has announced the innovative 'Use It or Lose It' wireless system being installed in all new firearms for the 2077 lineup.

This simple system revolves around a small, but powerful explosive situated in the middle of the weapon with a detonator that requires constant wireless updates to prevent it from exploding, failure to receive the necessary signals triggers the explosive thus rendering the weapon useless and possibly injuring the obviously criminal element trying to use it in an illegal (offline) mode. Any attempts to disable the explosive itself would likewise trigger detonation.

When asked about what would happen if signal jammers were used to cut off the device from normal Matrix access and potentially trigger an explosion, Junior VP Thomas Hammerill admitted there were "still a few design bugs being worked out" but assured the conference attendees that this would not stop the new rollout in the fall of 2076 and that patches would be provided down the road when a final solution was attained.

[DWC]

In a surprise move to encourage wireless use on their weapons line, Ares has announced the innovative 'Use It or Lose It' wireless system being installed in all new firearms for the 2077 lineup.

This simple system revolves around a small, but powerful explosive situated in the middle of the weapon with a detonator that requires constant wireless updates to prevent it from exploding, failure to receive the necessary signals triggers the explosive thus rendering the weapon useless and possibly injuring the obviously criminal element trying to use it in an illegal (offline) mode. Any attempts to disable the explosive itself would likewise trigger detonation.

When asked about what would happen if signal jammers were used to cut off the device from normal Matrix access and potentially trigger an explosion, Junior VP Thomas Hammerill admitted there were "still a few design bugs being worked out" but assured the conference attendees that this would not stop the new rollout in the fall of 2076 and that patches would be provided down the road when a final solution was attained.

That explains the Excalibur.

[SpellBinder]

That explains the Excalibur.

Thought the nanostorm did that one.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That explains the Excalibur.

Nothing explains the Excalibur... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[BigGreenSquid]

In a surprise move to encourage wireless use on their weapons line, Ares has announced the innovative 'Use It or Lose It' wireless system being installed in all new firearms for the 2077 lineup.

This simple system revolves around a small, but powerful explosive situated in the middle of the weapon with a detonator that requires constant wireless updates to prevent it from exploding, failure to receive the necessary signals triggers the explosive thus rendering the weapon useless and possibly injuring the obviously criminal element trying to use it in an illegal (offline) mode. Any attempts to disable the explosive itself would likewise trigger detonation.

When asked about what would happen if signal jammers were used to cut off the device from normal Matrix access and potentially trigger an explosion, Junior VP Thomas Hammerill admitted there were "still a few design bugs being worked out" but assured the conference attendees that this would not stop the new rollout in the fall of 2076 and that patches would be provided down the road when a final solution was attained.

+1 internet, absolutely brilliant.

[Shadow Knight]

I could see a TacNet as a very upgraded version of the modern BFT.

http://www.viasat.com/government-communica...-force-tracking

The TacNet would comprise several interlocking functions. First, using satellite mapping, GPS positioning, and weather/atmospheric information combined with sensor feeds from individual sensor platforms (squad members, drones, vehicles) the TacNet would proceed to build a 3D battlefield map with all known forces.

Second, using the live map the TacNet would calculate fields of fire, plot azimuth/angle trajectories for indirect fire, and offer tactical suggestions.

Using a image link, the TacNet could paint targets (blue=friendly / red=hostile) and provide a color coded transparency/outline in a users vision of targets which may not be visible due to LOS. For example you could see an outline of a soldier hiding behind a tree as long as one sensor platform had eyes on the target. Using targeting information and AR displays, a shooter with a smartgun could fire accurately while remaining almost entirely in a covered position.

Finally, the TacNet encrypts the entire network into a single hidden node. As the TacNet would most likely be run off of the deckers cyberdeck, it would stay hidden as an opposed Computer + Intuition
[Data Processing] v. Logic + Sleaze Test using the cyberdecks sleaze.

This is exactly what I want to set up rules for. I would also include noncombatants as say yellow. So you can designate innocent bystanders..

[Sendaz]

Bystanders only count as visual cover. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Shadow Knight]

In a surprise move to encourage wireless use on their weapons line, Ares has announced the innovative 'Use It or Lose It' wireless system being installed in all new firearms for the 2077 lineup.

This simple system revolves around a small, but powerful explosive situated in the middle of the weapon with a detonator that requires constant wireless updates to prevent it from exploding, failure to receive the necessary signals triggers the explosive thus rendering the weapon useless and possibly injuring the obviously criminal element trying to use it in an illegal (offline) mode. Any attempts to disable the explosive itself would likewise trigger detonation.

When asked about what would happen if signal jammers were used to cut off the device from normal Matrix access and potentially trigger an explosion, Junior VP Thomas Hammerill admitted there were "still a few design bugs being worked out" but assured the conference attendees that this would not stop the new rollout in the fall of 2076 and that patches would be provided down the road when a final solution was attained.

Which like the guns with various rings etc. to make it so only owners can use them will not sell. as failure to work in life or death situations tends to lead customers to not risk using them at all.

[Sendaz]

Which like the guns with various rings etc. to make it so only owners can use them will not sell. as failure to work in life or death situations tends to lead customers to not risk using them at all.

O_O;


Sorry, thought the humor was self-evident on that one.

[BigGreenSquid]

As to the original topic...

A TacNet might be its own device. If a Commlink is like a smart phone, a Cyberdeck a tablet and a RCC a briefcase, then a TacNet should definitely be the size of a laptop. Moreover, to keep it within 5e retardedness, it functions as a hidden micro-host. It could have three matrix attributes (Data Processing, Sleaze and Firewall) fixed at its device rating and as a host everything "in" it is hidden by the TacNet's sleaze. The stock metaphor for a TacNet would be a Combat Information Center (CiC).

I do like the shared dice pool idea for its simplicity. Another option would allow the TacNet to assist/speed things up. For example:

Street Sam Joe is completely crouching behind cover, but looking in the direction of enemy fire, via his AR display he sees a transparent outline of the terrain in front of him, as well as two enemies completely hidden to his LOS behind a building. The TacNet calculates that if Joe were to move over 2 feet and raise himself up to a 3/4 crouch he would have a clear shot at the third enemy. As a free action Joe confirms the suggestion and paints his target. Looking up he sees a floating box in his AR display and a green dot ahead of him. Raising himself up to the "window", Joe puts his rifle through the window and quickly aligns the red dot of his smart link with the green dot of the TacNet target, pulls the trigger, and drops back down into cover. Joe has executed an extremely well aimed shot, very quickly and bypassed the entire aiming process.

Things a hacker might do to a TacNet:

* Create confusion effects by giving misleading advice such as showing good cover when the spot is actually lined up with an enemy shooter, changing target designations (squad members get painted red) causing friendly fire, causing a smartgun to give incorrect aiming indications, momentarily taking down the squads suppressors/dampeners right before a flash-bang goes off, etc.

* Concealing enemies by removing target designations, actively editing the video feed to a street sams cyber eyes so they do not see the dandelion eater sneaking up on them, cloud the enemy's TacNet with a barrage of AR spam.

* Disable communications

* Feed all of the enemy's TacNet info into your own

[IKerensky]

Ok but If you add a Tacnet you had to change the combat for Groups without Tacnet or Tacnet down:

-Players aren't allowed to communicate except by using a free action once during each action pass.
-Players cant communicate any information about their gear, state, position or everything else except by using this fre action.
-each player is only aware of what his character know and thus the GM should split the group and separate them physically to avoid inadvertandly provide infirmation.
-players cant target opponent nor designate opponent for their teammate to shoot except by using the speech free action. Any attempt to denominate a target by his physical location to a teammate not standing right by yourself required a Logic+Intuition test ("my left or your left ?")

You see, no need to add rules for a Tacnet, players are already been using a Tacnet around the table.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ok but If you add a Tacnet you had to change the combat for Groups without Tacnet or Tacnet down:

-Players aren't allowed to communicate except by using a free action once during each action pass.
-Players cant communicate any information about their gear, state, position or everything else except by using this fre action.
-each player is only aware of what his character know and thus the GM should split the group and separate them physically to avoid inadvertandly provide infirmation.
-players cant target opponent nor designate opponent for their teammate to shoot except by using the speech free action. Any attempt to denominate a target by his physical location to a teammate not standing right by yourself required a Logic+Intuition test ("my left or your left ?")

You see, no need to add rules for a Tacnet, players are already been using a Tacnet around the table.

Indeed, which is a very relevant observation... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[RHat]

Completely and utterly immune to it if that lieutenant turns off the wireless (or never had it active to start with). So, now, what is the Hacker gonna do? Oh wait, there is still communications, remote rigged devices and tacnets. EXACTLY what was available in SR4A. NO NEED to make the cyber guy susceptible to the stupidity of wireless bonuses and bricking whatsoever. *shrug*

That requires those three things to be present - and I wouldn't expect to see them until about some PR5 teams, or possibly 4 in some exceptional cases. Meaning that those things are not general case examples. And really, until about that same point I find it unlikely that someone is running with wireless off.

All that said, we're kind of going in the wrong order here - before considering what a tacnet IS, we need to figure out what it's going to DO. Suggestions, anyone?

[apple]

+1 to +4 dices and +0 to +2 on limits on attack/defense/infiltration/perception tests depending on how many different sensors are in the ntwork.
-1 to -4 and -0 to -2 on limits on attack/defense/infiltration/perception tests depending on how deep the enemy decker is in the network.

Ah, scrap that. That´s not for SR5. You have matrix bonuses for that.

SYL

[BigGreenSquid]

Ok but If you add a Tacnet you had to change the combat for Groups without Tacnet or Tacnet down:

-Players aren't allowed to communicate except by using a free action once during each action pass.
-Players cant communicate any information about their gear, state, position or everything else except by using this fre action.
-each player is only aware of what his character know and thus the GM should split the group and separate them physically to avoid inadvertandly provide infirmation.
-players cant target opponent nor designate opponent for their teammate to shoot except by using the speech free action. Any attempt to denominate a target by his physical location to a teammate not standing right by yourself required a Logic+Intuition test ("my left or your left ?")

You see, no need to add rules for a Tacnet, players are already been using a Tacnet around the table.

You are correct, players can indeed do all of the things you just said, just like someone with access to google can indeed duplicate most, if not all of the functions of a military grade BFT, yet there is a significant difference between what one can cobble together and a system specifically designed for a TacNet function.

First off, all the information being passed by players as you described in transmitted in plain text. It wouldn't take a hacker with a couple hundred thousand nuyen worth of gear to "listen in," but any script kiddie with the equivalent of a police/cell phone scanner picked up at your local stuffer shack would work. Like the modern BFT, a TacNet by its very nature would be on an encrypted/hidden network. Is hackable/detectable? Yes, but that would take a hacker with a couple hundred thousand nuyen worth of gear.

Second, you could definitely use your image link to share what you are seeing with other squad members and in an AR window they could see exactly what you are seeing. Using a downloaded satellite image a group could put into a shared AR window, that shows the location of the entire group, and by putting pins on the map you could designate target locations... All of which is in plain text and requires the user to actively do all of those things.

A TacNet does all of that, in a seamless automatic fashion. By taking the sensor information from every sensor platform on the net, it could build a real-time 3d battlefield map. One that would contain information holes where no/little sensory information is being reported certainly. Using that info, the TacNet could automatically plot targeting/field of fire info. When your buddy is running short on ammo, he does not need to shout out to the net. The TacNet already has all of the squad's logistical information and sends advisory messages to the most tactically viable member who has spare ammo.

Sure, you could, and I am sure most green shadowrunners do, jimmy-rig up many of the functions of a TacNet. Professionals on the other hand will take all of that battlefield information and put it into a package that is much greater than the sum of its parts.

[BigGreenSquid]

All that said, we're kind of going in the wrong order here - before considering what a tacnet IS, we need to figure out what it's going to DO. Suggestions, anyone?

Trying to stay within SR5 as much as possible, I see a TacNet doing several things. First, it functions as a micro-host, hiding and protecting all it its members at its device rating while still providing slaved devices online matrix access.. Second it allows secure communications. Third, it could provide a shared initiative pool based upon its rating. Members of the net could draw from the pool to automatically aim for example. The TacNet could provide team limit and BD pools based upon its rating as well. As a complex action, the TacNet operator could make a leadership or some other test TBD to refresh the pool (it doesn't automatically refresh). These pools, could be attacked and depleted (2 marks) or stolen (3 marks) by opposing hackers. Also, a compromised TacNet would give an opposing hacker complete access to the squad's logistics and allow him to directly attack/manipulate slaved devices.

Finally, a TacNet would require a minimum number of inputs per device rating to operate (additional inputs would exceed the TacNet's ability to adequately process, thus providing no additional bonus. A TacNet who's inputs begin to drop off degrade to the next lower rating that it has the necessary inputs to function at.

I realize this needs some fleshing out, but I think it could be a good starting framework.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That requires those three things to be present - and I wouldn't expect to see them until about some PR5 teams, or possibly 4 in some exceptional cases. Meaning that those things are not general case examples. And really, until about that same point I find it unlikely that someone is running with wireless off.

Why would you say that? It is common sense, and basic security, that you run with Wireless off. See, you cannot be detected that way if you do. Seems like that will be the rule, rather than the exception, unless you are running something like a Tacnet or Communications (which is obvious, of course, but which do not need to be activated until actually needed). Any Shadowrunner running active is just asking to be shot, found, bricked, etc. Seems pretty counterproductive to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)