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> Raven Mentor Spirit - too good to be true?
Samoth
post Jul 15 2013, 01:05 PM
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As an Adept, for 5 "Karma" you get +2 Con die (immensely useful skill) and 1.5PP of free powers in Voice Control 1 and Traceless Walk. Shark is great for melee users, and some of the others look really good, but Raven seems OP.
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Sendaz
post Jul 15 2013, 01:12 PM
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It is very good for the con man mage, but every team he runs with will have to watch their backs to avoid the pranks and general mischief that goes with it even if it’s to the disadvantage of said team, as well as the rubbing of salt in anothers wounds by stepping in to take advantage of it.

What's that? You just broke up with your hot girl friend?

Roll Charisma+Willpower (3) to NOT call her up and offer to 'console' her with dinner and dancing.

Or

Okay, guys as soon as the guards pass by we slip down the hallway.

As guards pass roll Cha+Will (3) to NOT Telekineticaly tape a KICK ME sign on the guard's back. Light enough not to draw attention when put on, but sooner or later someone will see and comment/comply.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

A reason many Ravens tend to be left alone, not by their own choice but because many can not handle them around.
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Draco18s
post Jul 15 2013, 01:44 PM
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Just as an aside:

If you're picking up any quality that has a Composure roll to resist....90% of the time you shouldn't even be rolling, you should be performing the action anyway. It's when it's absolutely positively vital that you need to Cut It Out that dice should be picked up.

Otherwise a lot of composure rolls are useless (Cha-based mage anyone? How often do those folks fail the roll?)
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Sendaz
post Jul 15 2013, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jul 15 2013, 09:44 AM) *
Just as an aside:

If you're picking up any quality that has a Composure roll to resist....90% of the time you shouldn't even be rolling, you should be performing the action anyway. It's when it's absolutely positively vital that you need to Cut It Out that dice should be picked up.

Otherwise a lot of composure rolls are useless (Cha-based mage anyone? How often do those folks fail the roll?)

That is true, was just showing how easy a situation can arise where you should be acting in your Mentor's footsteps.

If you are not willing to act in that manner, then the GM can call for rolls to encourage you and even then if you still try to not follow that path on your own , even if you are making your tests, one can expect the Mentor to withdraw their benefits sooner or later as you grow away from it.

Think of it like Tempus from Thieve's world. When he acted in the manner his 'god' approved of he had tremendous combat abilities and healing, but when he tried to be more subdued or had not slaughtered and raped recently his healing factor suffered.
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Makki
post Jul 15 2013, 02:02 PM
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I was tempted to put it in the Errata thread, that one mentor spirit gets 1.5 PP, while all the others get only 0.5 PP. But I like adepts too much (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Draco18s
post Jul 15 2013, 02:08 PM
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QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jul 15 2013, 08:51 AM) *
If you are not willing to act in that manner, then the GM can call for rolls to encourage you and even then if you still try to not follow that path on your own , even if you are making your tests, one can expect the Mentor to withdraw their benefits sooner or later as you grow away from it.


Quite.
I think it was the GURPS game that I am/was/will be in that made me arrive at the conclusion that the willpower tests aren't something that needs to be rolled all the time, but rather something that the character should be doing naturally and only when it's a Bad IdeaTM that dice are rolled.

(I say this, because I created a character who was lecherous, meaning he'd hit on every girl in the room, and I already had it in mind that he'd be doing this, so the quality fit the personality of the character I was designing and then went, "Wait, those composure rolls in Shadowrun are being used wrong!" as so many people go "feh, I can make that roll 95% of the time, meaningless downside." And I know because I've done exactly that, and it took a different perspective, one of "why would I want to resist?" that changed my mind.)
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cndblank
post Jul 15 2013, 02:20 PM
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QUOTE (Samoth @ Jul 15 2013, 07:05 AM) *
As an Adept, for 5 "Karma" you get +2 Con die (immensely useful skill) and 1.5PP of free powers in Voice Control 1 and Traceless Walk. Shark is great for melee users, and some of the others look really good, but Raven seems OP.


Since the other Adept Advantages clock in at around .5 power points, at best this is an "or" rather than an "and".
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HugeC
post Jul 15 2013, 02:31 PM
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I too thought it looked a little awesome compared to other archetypes. It should be noted that your mentor spirit (aka the GM) can temporarily reduce your Magic if it doesn't like how you are behaving. Better RP that totem for all you're worth, chummer!
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Samoth
post Jul 15 2013, 02:54 PM
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I always RP and didn't think I needed to note that in this situation. By the RAW the positives are enormous and the negatives are extremely minimal.
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phlapjack77
post Jul 15 2013, 03:22 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jul 15 2013, 10:08 PM) *
Quite.
I think it was the GURPS game that I am/was/will be in that made me arrive at the conclusion that the willpower tests aren't something that needs to be rolled all the time
that was a great movie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) gotta find it somewhere now...

and to the OP, this should def. be put in the errata thread. No way that one mentor spirit should give 1.5 PP worth of advantages while the rest give 0.5 PP worth.
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Draco18s
post Jul 15 2013, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Jul 15 2013, 10:22 AM) *
that was a great movie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) gotta find it somewhere now...


Movie?
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Shemhazai
post Jul 15 2013, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jul 15 2013, 01:37 PM) *
Movie?

You didn't see GURPS???
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Draco18s
post Jul 15 2013, 08:57 PM
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QUOTE (Shemhazai @ Jul 15 2013, 03:17 PM) *
You didn't see GURPS???


I am in the dark.
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phlapjack77
post Jul 16 2013, 12:59 AM
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My mistake - I thought you were quoting a movie (think it was called "Lightyear" ? Gonna look this up later...). There are some characters who live "outside of time", so whenever they speak they say I was am will be going to do something.
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GiraffeShaman
post Jul 16 2013, 01:07 AM
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GURPS is a roleplaying game system, if that's helpful. It's also the only system that will allow you to be a Highlander like Dunacan Macleod.
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Draco18s
post Jul 16 2013, 03:45 AM
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QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Jul 15 2013, 07:59 PM) *
My mistake - I thought you were quoting a movie (think it was called "Lightyear" ? Gonna look this up later...). There are some characters who live "outside of time", so whenever they speak they say I was am will be going to do something.


Well my statement is still accurate. The game is on hiatus, so I was playing previously, questionable if I am playing now, likely to play again in the future.
Also, the character himself has traveled in time. Although not as much as his...father in law. Actually, I think that still ends in a tie...

(The first time the GM ran the game, the players went "fuck plot, we're going to travel 1000 years into the past." So he rebooted the game--the one my character is in--as what happened as a result of the first group's meddling. Second group was put in stasis for 1000 years prior to the game's opening scene)
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phlapjack77
post Jul 16 2013, 03:55 AM
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Sounds like a cool game (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Just don't get into the paradox of becoming your own father-in-law or whatever...

(found the movie: "The Light Years")
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Abstruse
post Jul 16 2013, 03:56 AM
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For the record, the Raven may get 1.5PP of free powers...but seriously, how often is Voice Control actually used? Even Traceless Walk is only situationally useful. Compare that to all the other totems and their bonuses, which are far more universally useful (Mystic Armor? Attribute Boost (Agility)? Enhanced Accuracy AND Danger Sense?) Honestly, I think the Seducer is closer to broken and is the only reason the Pornomancer build is still viable. +2 Con, +2 for Illusions, and a free Improved Ability in a skill from the Acting or Influence groups. THAT is far more evil IMO.
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phlapjack77
post Jul 16 2013, 04:21 AM
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QUOTE (Abstruse @ Jul 16 2013, 11:56 AM) *
For the record, the Raven may get 1.5PP of free powers...but seriously, how often is Voice Control actually used? Even Traceless Walk is only situationally useful. Compare that to all the other totems and their bonuses, which are far more universally useful (Mystic Armor? Attribute Boost (Agility)? Enhanced Accuracy AND Danger Sense?) Honestly, I think the Seducer is closer to broken and is the only reason the Pornomancer build is still viable. +2 Con, +2 for Illusions, and a free Improved Ability in a skill from the Acting or Influence groups. THAT is far more evil IMO.

You don't get all 3 bonuses - you have to choose one of the mage or adept bonuses.

Voice control can and should be used all the time! Disguise/Mask/whatever + voice control = awesomeness. Impersonation just got a lot more powerful when you can mimic someone else's voice. I sorta agree with Traceless Walk tho' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Abstruse
post Jul 16 2013, 04:38 AM
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QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Jul 15 2013, 10:21 PM) *
You don't get all 3 bonuses - you have to choose one of the mage or adept bonuses.

Voice control can and should be used all the time! Disguise/Mask/whatever + voice control = awesomeness. Impersonation just got a lot more powerful when you can mimic someone else's voice. I sorta agree with Traceless Walk tho' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You do if you're a Mystic Adept, which the Pornomancer build is. Unless I missed something.
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RHat
post Jul 16 2013, 04:47 AM
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QUOTE (Abstruse @ Jul 15 2013, 09:38 PM) *
You do if you're a Mystic Adept, which the Pornomancer build is. Unless I missed something.


Mystic Adepts are required to choose which advantage they want - they get EITHER the Mage or Adept Advantage, and cannot ever have the other.
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Makki
post Jul 16 2013, 05:15 AM
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Voice Control raises Social Limit. How is that not useful Oo
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phlapjack77
post Jul 16 2013, 06:23 AM
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QUOTE (Makki @ Jul 16 2013, 01:15 PM) *
Voice Control raises Social Limit. How is that not useful Oo

Is that the only benefit? I need to re-read that ability again. Because that would really suck. But it wouldn't be alone, because there are other powers/abiliities that only raise Limits...
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KarmaInferno
post Jul 16 2013, 12:25 PM
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The way the Reputation rules are written, pretty much EVERY runner will eventually get to more or less ignore the Social limit, if the person they're speaking to has any reason to know them.

Street Cred raises the Social Limit, you see, if your Rep is a factor. And your Street Cred increases automatically as you earn Karma, aside from direct awards for in game actions.

So other Social Limit modifiers are proportionally less valuable as a result.



-k
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Nath
post Jul 16 2013, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jul 16 2013, 02:25 PM) *
The way the Reputation rules are written, pretty much EVERY runner will eventually get to more or less ignore the Social limit, if the person they're speaking to has any reason to know them.

Street Cred raises the Social Limit, you see, if your Rep is a factor. And your Street Cred increases automatically as you earn Karma, aside from direct awards for in game actions.

So other Social Limit modifiers are proportionally less valuable as a result.
At least, it allows (after a while) every characters and not just faces to get something from their contacts (unlike knowledge skills, which fall under the Mental Limit).
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