Gamist rules Options

[Shemhazai]

That casting 2 barriers is fine, 1 barrier and shooting a gun is fine, 1 barrier and a healing spell is fine, but any two spells that affect enemies is a complete no-no? Without a good ingame justification, it fits this description: http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1545/r...ciated-mechanic .

I haven't seen where the rules actually state this clearly.

[Epicedion]

That casting 2 barriers is fine, 1 barrier and shooting a gun is fine, 1 barrier and a healing spell is fine, but any two spells that affect enemies is a complete no-no? Without a good ingame justification, it fits this description: http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1545/r...ciated-mechanic .

Oddly enough you can cast 6 fireballs at once by splitting your dice pool. You just can't recklessly cast two attack spells back to back with a full dice pool for each. Since you can accomplish what you're complaining you can't accomplish, it really looks like you're only complaining that you can't take advantage of a full dice pool for two attacks thus making it harder than you'd like.

[Epicedion]

I haven't seen where the rules actually state this clearly.

The rules state that if you take two simple actions only one can be an attack action. Pedantry isn't going to help, since "attack" is a commonly defined word.

If there were a rule that said "during a run you can only take one jump action" I think we could agree that, even though there's no "jump action" clearly defined, that it would involve any sort of test wherein you jump.

In this case, an "attack action" would be any action that involves attacking someone/something.

[Mäx]

The rules state that if you take two simple actions only one can be an attack action. Pedantry isn't going to help, since "attack" is a commonly defined word.

If there were a rule that said "during a run you can only take one jump action" I think we could agree that, even though there's no "jump action" clearly defined, that it would involve any sort of test wherein you jump.

In this case, an "attack action" would be any action that involves attacking someone/something.

Don't bother he's adamant in his believe that general rule for simple actions magically doesn't aptly for spell casting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Sendaz]

The way you capitalise Tradition and the paradigm reference makes me think you've played Mage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Busted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Well spotted.

[Freya]

I came over from CWoD Mage to Shadowrun after the Mage line ended (with a gap for other things). I still have to remind myself that referring to "the Awakened/Awakening", "Traditions" and "paradigm" doesn't mean exactly what I think it means.

[Mäx]

I would say that the new wireless bonus rules are pretty damm gamist.
I mean how exactly does having a matrix connection make manually (un)folding a bibod faster (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[RHat]

I would say that the new wireless bonus rules are pretty damm gamist.
I mean how exactly does having a matrix connection make manually (un)folding a bibod faster (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

It doesn't. The wireless bonus is that you're not doing it manually.

[Mäx]

It doesn't. The wireless bonus is that you're not doing it manually.

By the rules it does.

[RHat]

The rules do not specify manual control for the wireless bonus.

[Mäx]

The rules do not specify manual control for the wireless bonus.

They dont specify anything, it's just magically faster with matrix connection.
And remember it needs to be actually connected to the matrix, connection to just you doesn't do anything
Edit: Infact it doesn't even need to be connected to you in anyway, only the matrix

[RHat]

Yes, but why would you intentionally assume the most nonsensical option?

And yes, this falls under the "really seems like it should with with PAN alone" category, but I'll remind you - skinlink and induction pads aren't available in this edition thus far, and wiring your gun seems incredibly impractical.

[Shemhazai]

Don't bother he's adamant in his believe that general rule for simple actions magically doesn't aptly for spell casting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

No, only that the evidence that I've seen for it is very weak. I've gone into detail in other threads, but I'm still using the rule previews. Once I get a full look, I'll be able to say more. I'm starting to think that if there was anything conclusive on this issue, people would have quoted it by now.

Think about it. Combat spell damage went down considerably. Perhaps, for a price, it can be higher.

[RHat]

Again, we have direct commentary on the intent of these rules. They are meant to cover spells.

[Mäx]

No, only that the evidence that I've seen for it is very weak.

Really, its a fraking general rule for every and all simple actions.
What more do you actually need(especially with writer left and right confirming that it covers everything that one can think as an attack)

Also no combat spell damage in general didn't go down, direct spells did and good riddance they where OP as heck.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

No, only that the evidence that I've seen for it is very weak. I've gone into detail in other threads, but I'm still using the rule previews. Once I get a full look, I'll be able to say more. I'm starting to think that if there was anything conclusive on this issue, people would have quoted it by now.

They HAVE commented (and quoted) directly to your position. You just refuse to acknowledge it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Shemhazai]

I'll have access to a copy of the core rules this weekend. I'll try to look over it and make my full case in another thread.

I acknowledge that the devs are much more likely to be correct on this issue than I.

[GloriousRuse]

The buttstock is not just magically faster...it recieves a quick command form DNI and flips out. Versus srunner friend taking his hand to the butt of the weapon and unfolding it or hitting a catch or whatever.

There is precedent for this in magazine changes using a smartgun. Dropping a magazine only require you finer a catch, but it is faster to literally just think it.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The buttstock is not just magically faster...it recieves a quick command form DNI and flips out. Versus srunner friend taking his hand to the butt of the weapon and unfolding it or hitting a catch or whatever.

There is precedent for this in magazine changes using a smartgun. Dropping a magazine only require you finer a catch, but it is faster to literally just think it.

Which implies that the Folding Stock is mechanized and powered, which I do not see. And again, should NOT require Matrix access to employ, just a DNI connection.

[Mäx]

The buttstock is not just magically faster...it recieves a quick command form DNI and flips out. Versus srunner friend taking his hand to the butt of the weapon and unfolding it or hitting a catch or whatever.

There is precedent for this in magazine changes using a smartgun. Dropping a magazine only require you finer a catch, but it is faster to literally just think it.

Except thats not the rules, rule is that as long as the buttstock is connected to the matrix its faster fold out.
All because of the magic of matrix, really most of the bonuses run on magical matrix power.

[Epicedion]

Which implies that the Folding Stock is mechanized and powered, which I do not see. And again, should NOT require Matrix access to employ, just a DNI connection.

Generally speaking you don't plug the folding stock into your brain, you connect it to your PAN, which involves wireless. Even if it's physically plugged into your commlink it's wireless accessible if your commlink is on and thus online.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Generally speaking you don't plug the folding stock into your brain, you connect it to your PAN, which involves wireless. Even if it's physically plugged into your commlink it's wireless accessible if your commlink is on and thus online.

True, and I Would have absolutely no problem with it if it was not accessible directly from the Matrix, which it unfortunately is. I do not have to compromise your PAN if your Folding Stock is online. It would get the defense of the PAN, but it is still hackable without me having to hack the PAN. And since it is attached to a GUN, the PAN really has nothing to do with it, since the gun shows EVEN IF THE PAN PROTECTS IT.

Now, it is probably pretty pedantic of me to state that the Folding Stock is a target for a Hacker, because no hacker in his right mind would probably hack taht when tehre are other things he could play with. However, it shows why the Wireless Bonuses are indeed stupid. They were not well thought out (even by the writer's own admission) and were implemented very poorly.

[Epicedion]

You are hacking the PAN, though, it just doesn't take eleventy steps anymore. Getting a mark on the device also puts a mark on the master.

[Mäx]

You are hacking the PAN, though, it just doesn't take eleventy steps anymore. Getting a mark on the device also puts a mark on the master.

Thats why you don't connect things like a folding stock to your PAN, no need, just connect them directly to matrix and reap the benefits.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Which implies that the Folding Stock is mechanized and powered, which I do not see. And again, should NOT require Matrix access to employ, just a DNI connection.

As long as it is connected to the matrix you don't even need DNI. You can manually type out the command in AR and its faster.