SR5: Non-Shotguns and Choke, Choke that Slivergun? Options

[BlackJaw]

Does the Ares Viper Slivergun, Fichetti Tiffani Needler, or Remington Roomsweeper gain all the options of flechette shotguns in terms of choke settings? My reading of the rules on using Choke Settings on page 180 seems to indicate no, because it's specifically calling out shotguns. On the other hand p189 on defending from Flechettes doesn't call out shotguns as the source. The other references to choke or flechettes don't indicate. If I load a standard gun with flechettes rounds as per the flechettes ammo rules, it doesn't say I get a choke option. The various non-shotgun weapon descriptions just say they use flechettes, or in the slivergun case, "count as flechettes," but doesn't say they work as like shotguns or that they have choke settings. The Roomsweeper is described as being more like a shotgun, but it doesn't indicate if that gives it choke options.

Am I over thinking this? Do all flechette weapons have choke? Did they have choke in past editions? If I loaded flechettes rounds into a superwarhawk would it get choke settings?

[Skynet]

Choke is only used for shotguns (and has been that way for every edition afair). The only exception is the Remington Roomsweeper which uses shotgun-rules when firing shot. (Note: While shot- and flechette-ammo use the same rules, they're not identical. )

it uses
Heavy Pistol ranges but shotgun rules (Shotguns, p. 180).

[Mäx]

Shotgun rules are only for shotguns not all weapons using fletchette ammo.
But Roomsweeper does get it as the description clearly says it use Shotgun rules when loaded with shot rounds.

And those "when defending from fletchette" should really be errated to "defending from shot rounds".

[Sengir]

(Note: While shot- and flechette-ammo use the same rules, they're not identical. )

Yeah, one is an editor oversight, the other is the proper term in SR. The term "shot" reared up its head for several editions, without there ever being shot ammunition.

[Elfenlied]

They should probably distinguish between buckshot and flechette, but they never did. Creates all kinds of confucion such as "can you use armor-piercing flechette with the choke rules".

[Mäx]

Yeah, one is an editor oversight, the other is the proper term in SR. The term "shot" reared up its head for several editions, without there ever being shot ammunition.

the books(in all editions) really should have a note about both shot and slugs being standard ammo for shotguns as far as price and availability go.

[Sengir]

the books(in all editions) really should have a note about both shot and slugs being standard ammo for shotguns as far as price and availability go.

"Regular ammo" or is not any ammo which the weapon regularly fires (like shot for shotguns, darts for dartguns, grenades for mortars, APDS for vehicle weapons...), "regular ammo" explicitly refers to FMJ rounds: "Also called ball or full metal jacket rounds, these solid slugs are useful for numerous applications (mainly killing things)."

[Mäx]

"Regular ammo" or is not any ammo which the weapon regularly fires (like shot for shotguns, darts for dartguns, grenades for mortars, APDS for vehicle weapons...), "regular ammo" explicitly refers to FMJ rounds: "Also called ball or full metal jacket rounds, these solid slugs are useful for numerous applications (mainly killing things)."

Yes and my point was that there should be note that shot ammo for shotguns has same cost and availability as it.

[Elfenlied]

Yes and my point was that there should be note that shot ammo for shotguns has same cost and availability as it.

It always struck me as odd that Buckshot cost the same as Ex-Ex and was more expensive than APDS in SR4.

[Remnar]

Yes and my point was that there should be note that shot ammo for shotguns has same cost and availability as it.

That was a houserule so long that I had actually forgotten it was something else by RAW.

[Sengir]

Yes and my point was that there should be note that shot ammo for shotguns has same cost and availability as it.

Why should it? Having something that acts like flechettes in all regards only that it's cheaper makes sense from neither fluff nor design perspective. Flechettes are debatably too expensive, but if you want to change that, it should apply to all flechette rounds.

[Elfenlied]

Why should it? Having something that acts like flechettes in all regards only that it's cheaper makes sense from neither fluff nor design perspective. Flechettes are debatably too expensive, but if you want to change that, it should apply to all flechette rounds.

IRL, Flechette and buckshot are two very different ammo types with different ballistic properties. They should just separate flechette and buckshot once and for all, with different rules for them.

[Sunshine]

IRL, Flechette and buckshot are two very different ammo types with different ballistic properties. They should just separate flechette and buckshot once and for all, with different rules for them.

How would you go about it mechanics-wise? Just change the price and availability on the flechette rounds or really going over how they "work" their way through some poor slobs armor and intestines?
I aways was courious if flechettes could be made explosive tipped, apds, dumdumed, etc?

love,
Sunshine

[Sengir]

They should just separate flechette and buckshot once and for all, with different rules for them.

Easier solution: Just purge the few erroneous mentions of "shot" when talking about flechettes and be done with it.

[Elfenlied]

How would you go about it mechanics-wise? Just change the price and availability on the flechette rounds or really going over how they "work" their way through some poor slobs armor and intestines?
I aways was courious if flechettes could be made explosive tipped, apds, dumdumed, etc?

love,
Sunshine

The quick and dirty solution: flechette stats, as they currently are, become buckshot stats for a reduced price. The SR4 armor-piercing flechette stats become the new flechette.

[Mäx]

Easier solution: Just purge the few erroneous mentions of "shot" when talking about flechettes and be done with it.

Just no, shotguns that you can't get shot rounds is stupid.

[Sengir]

Just no, shotguns that you can't get shot rounds is stupid.

About as stupid as rifles you can't get lead balls for. The stuff surely still exists, it just has fallen by the wayside because of fancy future tech (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)