[X] My Assistant

[X-Kalibur]

Even using the SR3 system, essentially a D attack does 10 damage.

[phlapjack77]

Style over substance, for the lose.

Erm, yes. Quite.

And in tabletop Shadowrun, you get "harder to kill" as your Body score rises, too.

Explain to me the fundamental difference between the two? Because I'm not seeing one.

A difference in execution, yes. But not in result.

You get oh-so-slowly harder to kill in SR. Increasing Body is very expensive, and gets you almost nothing in terms of "hit points". Body 5 vs Body 10 is almost no difference in SR.

The fundamental difference is number inflation and, for lack of a better term, grittiness. Rules-systems with hit points tend to be more heroic, where the PC becomes nigh untouchable by lower-powered mooks mostly because of high hit points. This is cool in certain games. But for me this isn't the kind of game I want to play if I'm playing "SR". In SR, there's always the chance that some punk with a heavy pistol will roll well and one-shot you, no matter if you're at 0Karma or 100 Karma. Not the same feeling if you have 100 HP and the heavy pistol does 10 HP for damage.

I know the game's not finished. I'm just not liking the direction it seems to be taking. Let's hope this clip doesn't accurately represent the state of SRR.

[_Pax._]

You get oh-so-slowly harder to kill in SR. Increasing Body is very expensive, and gets you almost nothing in terms of "hit points". Body 5 vs Body 10 is almost no difference in SR.

You're kidding, right?

Body 10 gives you twice as many dice to resist damage with, as Body 5. You should ideally get twice as many successes.

Let's say it's that 14D attack cited earlier comign in. And you've got good, solid armor - 10 points of it, resulting in a TN of 4 to resist the damage. About half of your dice should come up successes.

Body 5? Two, maybe three successes. You stage down to S, 6 boxes on your condition monitor.

Body 10? 5 successes; you stage down to M, 3 boxes on your condition monitor.

... you call that "almost no difference" ...? The guy with B=5 is at 40% remaining, the guy with B=10 is at 70% remaining. I know which one I would rather be.

Rules-systems with hit points tend to be more heroic, where the PC becomes nigh untouchable by lower-powered mooks mostly because of high hit points. This is cool in certain games. But for me this isn't the kind of game I want to play if I'm playing "SR". In SR, there's always the chance that some punk with a heavy pistol will roll well and one-shot you, no matter if you're at 0Karma or 100 Karma. Not the same feeling if you have 100 HP and the heavy pistol does 10 HP for damage.

For one thing: Shadowrun does have hitpoints, and it always has. Up through SR3, it has given 10 for lethal damage, 10 for stun damage, and your Body in physical overflow boxes - and that was that.

For another thing: yet another assumption raises it's head: that weapon damage will be a fixed amount, no matter what. But ... what if, instead, weapon damage is a function both of the weapon, and the relative success of the shooter, then modified for the target's armor ...? IOW, that heavy pistol may not do "10 damage" all the time. It may do, say ... "!7"; that is, "7 base, modified by margin of success-versus-armor". And you might see a 4 drift up over the target ... or a 30 ... or lots of points between the two.

[CanRay]

*Sighs* It's taking so loooooooooooooooooooooooong... *Whines some more*

[Stahlseele]

*pat pat*
for once, we are in the same boat what with not getting to play . .

[Wounded Ronin]

According to the latest email they've decided to release on Steam. I'm not sure in the coming months if I will be in the US or in the Federated States of Micronesia. I'm not sure if Steam would work in the FSM or not.

They did say that in order to keep the DRM-free promise they would also have a non-steam version, but that it basically wouldn't be compatible with DLC content and fan created stuff in the same way that the Steam version would.

Which makes sense.

Makes me feel nostalgic for the days when you'd scour the internet for custom DOOM wads, or Max Payne mods, and after tons of searching you'd find some real gems. The days when it felt all wild and free. There were some truly great DOOM wads.

[DMiller]

I've never used "Steam" and I'm at work ATM... Can someone give me a run-down of what it is (or isn't)?

Thanks.

[CanRay]

I've never used "Steam" and I'm at work ATM... Can someone give me a run-down of what it is (or isn't)?

Thanks.

Steam (a program made by Valve, thus it's name is a Pune. That's a play on words, BTW) is a combination of social media and online store program to sell and distribute video games, as well as handle the DRM issues for companies so they don't have to (Most, being jerks, still do. *Looks hard at EA*) as it makes sure the copy is legitimately purchased (though them) and then licensed once. After it's installed on your computer, the game will run even if Steam is unable to connect to the Internet as it has already determined the DRM of the product in question and is more than happy to let people play the games they actually bought.

Also, you can buy Valve games through it, such as Portal, Team Fortress 2, and the Half-Life series.

Recently, it's opened up to more and more independent game teams with what's called "Greenlit", a voting program that lets the users of Steam determine which Indy Games are worth putting onto the site for sale, and which ones aren't, so that they don't have to dedicate teammates away from doing far more important things (Like making hats for Team Fortress characters).

It's free to use, costs for games are just as much as in a store with HELLA less DRM hassle, and it has *LOTS* of great sales all the time.

[DMiller]

Thanks CanRay.
I don't normally game on my PC (that's what my PS3 is for)... I'm making an exception for the SR games coming out this year. So Steam is another (otherwise) useless program that I'll have to install, create an account for and then uninstall and forget the password for. Yea. (sigh).

Also, I always thought it was pun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bigity]

Hey, don't dis Steam.

Serve the Newell!

[DMiller]

Hey, don't dis Steam.

Serve the Newell!

If Steam was available for an actual gaming platform, I probably would keep it around, but since my laptop is 4-ish years old and I have no intention on upgrading anytime soon I have little use for Steam. Not really disrespecting it, just of very limited value to me.

[CanRay]

I think they were talking about making SR:R available for the Ouya as well.

[_Pax._]

So Steam is another (otherwise) useless program that I'll have to install, create an account for and then uninstall and forget the password for. Yea. (sigh).

You won't be able to do that - uninstall steam and still play the game.

Steamworks titles require steam to be running in the background, in order to be run themselves.

With that said ... Steam is about as unintrusive as DRM can get.

[DMiller]

You won't be able to do that - uninstall steam and still play the game.

Steamworks titles require steam to be running in the background, in order to be run themselves.

With that said ... Steam is about as unintrusive as DRM can get.

Thanks _Pax._
So another TSR that I can't get rid of...(sigh)

Maybe I'll just D/L the DRM free version from the developer and not worry about player-made content. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[_Pax._]

.... Steam really isn't a big deal. I've got it running right now (I use the IM feature to keep in touch with a few folks, now and again), and with an IM going ... I'm seeing 32,244K of memory and 0% CPU. Shutting the IM window dropped it to 32,088K. Meanwhile, the Logitech Core Gaming Framework process (which runs my G510 keyboard and G500 mouse) takes up more than that (it's at just under 42,000K right now), and Windows Explorer is just over 38,000K.

So it's not a resource hog. It's not a memory hog on disk, either .... sure, my Steam folders are 31.1GB and 38.7GB, for a total of nearly 70GB ... but then, I have sixteen games currently installed, and that total includes their install folders. (And just FYI, I have two folders, because one is on my SSD, one is not - favorites that I think may benefit from being installed to an SSD, go in that Library; the rest get stuck on my HDD.)

[DMiller]

It's really not the resources that bother me, it's the need to have yet another hole in the firewall for a single-player game. If I could get the Android version as my backer reward I'd do that and be done with it since I have to have the play store available anyway. But in the various releases they stated that only the PC/MAC (and maybe 'nix) versions will be available as backer rewards.

I am very much looking forward to this game's release. Now it is sounding like maybe the end of May or begining of June, sweet!

[Stahlseele]

Steam also handles software-updates for the games too, keeps them current so they are always compatible with each other.
You may not be able to uninstall steam and still play your steam based games, but you can install the game and then close the firewall to prevent steam from going online.
Then you start Steam in offline-mode and can play, if i remember correctly.

[Mach_Ten]

Steam also handles software-updates for the games too, keeps them current so they are always compatible with each other.
You may not be able to uninstall steam and still play your steam based games, but you can install the game and then close the firewall to prevent steam from going online.
Then you start Steam in offline-mode and can play, if i remember correctly.

yup, offline mode is fine.

unless you play UBIsoft, MicroSoft, EA, or any other company that then launches a launcher that has it's own servers and additional DRM and another password to forget and etc
ad infinitum ad nauseum

Having recently re-installed Assassins creed and Anno 2070 .. I now remember why I stopped playing them, those launchers are AWFUL !

[Sengir]

It's really not the resources that bother me, it's the need to have yet another hole in the firewall for a single-player game.

It's a simple client program, why would it need a hole in the firewall? Unless by "hole in the firewall" you mean "allow another application in the 'firewall' program running on the same client" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Nevertheless, I think they should have fostered some market diversity by using GOG or another platform away from Steam. It's not that I consider Steam bad per se, but I dislike the idea of having an ever-increasing number of my games tied to a single distribution platform.

[_Pax._]

It's really not the resources that bother me, it's the need to have yet another hole in the firewall for a single-player game.

.... you can keep Steam in Offline mode 99.999999% of the time - only going Online when you choose, in order to patch up your game. (Or in the case of SRR, to browse the community-created material, an tag various things for completely automatic download and installation.)

Nevertheless, I think they should have fostered some market diversity by using GOG or another platform away from Steam.

Steam solved an entire "problem" for them with existing tech. That problem was "how do we provide a searchable, safe repository of community-generated content for our fans?" The solution was, "the Steam Workshop."

[Bigity]

If Steam was available for an actual gaming platform, I probably would keep it around, but since my laptop is 4-ish years old and I have no intention on upgrading anytime soon I have little use for Steam. Not really disrespecting it, just of very limited value to me.

Actual gaming platform?


You're kidding right? ;P

[Stahlseele]

used to be when people scoffed at consoles as being "for casuals" and computers were regarded the one true gaming system . .

[Bigity]

No joke. I paid 3 grand for my packard bell and damnit, I loved every minute I used it to play XCOM and Duke Nukem 3D

[_Pax._]

No joke. I paid 3 grand for my packard bell and damnit, I loved every minute I used it to play XCOM and Duke Nukem 3D

Same here.

My old machine was a $1100-ish box, that served me well for ~3 years before I bricked it.

Being stuck with only a laptop (and one with Intel HD integrated graphcis no less, 'cause it was never MEANT to be a gaming platform) for six weeks was utter HELL.

My new machine - just a handful of dollars under $3K as well, featuring an AMD FX-8350 8-core 4GHz CPU and a Radeon HD 7970 video card - is an absolute joy to game on. Everything, everything, gets turned up to to TWELBE visually, with rock-solid 50+ frames per second (and usually FAR more). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I love my PS3, my Xbox 360, and my g/f's Wii very much. But none of them can even hold a candle to my desktop PC. Not even close. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bigity]

Consoles are no go for me due to KBAM. A controller just feels imprecise. I can't head shot people in Tribes jetting packing through the air while they are doing the same with a damn controller.

However, when I had one (just a Wii now for the kids) I used it for sports games, and that was good.