Shadowrun: Returns is live, 20 years since the SNES, 19 years since Genesis Options

[Bigity]

I dunno where the summoning is weak comes from. I've kicked much ass with spirits, my own and ones summoned from in-game spots.

[quentra]

Summoning was too unreliable for me to use regularly save for a 1 AP meatshield.

[Remnar]

Finished it up as a combat decker. Decking was neat (though I let 'Mr. Artful' do the big hacking part since my assault rifle was way more useful for cover) but there wasn't enough. The game as a whole needed more random runs and such. I'll just have to wait to see what the community comes up with.

Round two, combat mage.

[Bull]

[ Spoiler ]

Harliquin isn't useless. He's one more FAB cannon. Nothing else he does has any use though. Then again, the only things I get much use out of are street samurai with shotguns and rifles. Sad that the mages are so feeble in combat and there isn't anything that you need to be a Mage for outside combat.

having someone with heal is excellent. He made a second heal spell I had available. And he can deal ok damage with his sword.

[Erik Baird]

That may or may not be a bug, Werewindlefr.

If you have someone overwatch with an SMG on "Spray and Pray" mode, there's a good chance anyone in the general vicinity of the bad guy that triggers the Overwatch is getting shot, friend or foe alike. If you have someone overwatch with a shotgun and the thing that triggers it is (a) at least six squares away and (b) in the vicinity of an ally, the ally can get shot as well.

These instances are not a bug. If you've got people overwatching with an AoE weapon, it's just as if they were overwatching with a grenade launcher. SMGs on Spray and Pray are area-of-effect weapons, shotguns at range are also AoE.

I can confirm that behavior. I had a Troll sam on overwatch in one of the Telestrian offices; the shotgun was on the wide scatter ability. When the sam took a shot on overwatch, every character on the screen was hit, and most were out of the line of fire. I shoulda took a screenshot , but I didn't do so in time to catch the scene.

[FuelDrop]

I occasionally summoned spirits who then just stood there draining my AP. Anyone else running into that problem?

[Critias]

The last level would have been much easier if there'd been someone to buy medkits from, during the pre-op gearing up session. Maybe they were there and I just looked right past 'em, but I saw dudes to buy chrome from, guns from, grenades from, drone repair kits from, spells from, yadda yadda yadda -- but no one just selling medkits.

[Bull]

The last level would have been much easier if there'd been someone to buy medkits from, during the pre-op gearing up session. Maybe they were there and I just looked right past 'em, but I saw dudes to buy chrome from, guns from, grenades from, drone repair kits from, spells from, yadda yadda yadda -- but no one just selling medkits.

yeah, I caught that too. My next play through I'll probably make sure I have a stash of kits in my, well, stash. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tanegar]

I am profoundly annoyed that you can't save wherever you like. It's 2013 and PCs do not suffer from the technical deficiencies that mandated checkpoint-only saves. There is absolutely no reason for this.

[Critias]

I am profoundly annoyed that you can't save wherever you like. It's 2013 and PCs do not suffer from the technical deficiencies that mandated checkpoint-only saves. There is absolutely no reason for this.

No one else is thrilled about it, either, but I've got to say I'm a little surprised by the indignation around this issue. It's something folks have known about for over a year, now.

Yeah, it'd be awesome if they'd fix it, and I don't claim to know anything about how much (or how little!) effort it would take to do so...but I'm just a little baffled at how folks seem so blindsided by it, when it's an issue that's been griped about since the Kickstarter.

[Seerow]

No one else is thrilled about it, either, but I've got to say I'm a little surprised by the indignation around this issue. It's something folks have known about for over a year, now.

Yeah, it'd be awesome if they'd fix it, and I don't claim to know anything about how much (or how little!) effort it would take to do so...but I'm just a little baffled at how folks seem so blindsided by it, when it's an issue that's been griped about since the Kickstarter.

Honestly, I wasn't aware of it until I started playing. I didn't follow the kickstarter closely, and it wasn't like they announced "You won't be able to save!" as a major feature in the kickstarter video, or any of the trailers/alpha footage. (Or if it was in those, it apparently wasn't harped on enough since I obviously forgot it shortly after seeing it)

[X-Kalibur]

Eh, it takes care of save scumming to an extent and makes it so your choices and luck are a little more visceral.

[Finster]

Eh, it takes care of save scumming to an extent and makes it so your choices and luck are a little more visceral.

Save scumming? If this were a roguelike or something with procedurally generated content, your argument would hold water. This is a single-player, story-based, RPG. Who gives a care about save scumming?

It also forces you to restart an entire scene when something bugs right at the end. Or when something pulls you away before you can finish the scene. I think I've started the Telestrian building scene 5 times now. I'm almost loathe to do it again. I may just start over with another character.

[Critias]

Eh, it takes care of save scumming to an extent and makes it so your choices and luck are a little more visceral.

Which might be features instead of bugs to some players, but it's always been my understanding the choice was made from a programming, not gameplay, perspective. For whatever arcane reasons that I totally don't get -- because coding just ain't my bag -- it would've taken them more work than they thought was worth it, to add save-at-will type stuff.

[ShadowDragon8685]

The save issue bugs me, too, but it's not my primary gripe.

My primary gripe is how bloody useless decking is. You have precisely one opportunity to get and use a Fairlight Excalibur, and after that you might as well hock your Excalibur (if you had the money to get it; I didn't,) and all your programs and agents for guns, guns, guns.

Also, you're told you should bring Dodger along on the run. Even though I did, he was absolutely useless. My main was a better decker than he was and a better shooter than he was, and to top it off, there weren't even multiple jack-points in the Telestrian building, so I couldn't even bring him along as Matrix backup. I wound up with him running pistol overwatch and being the healing kit bitch for Jotojunn and whomever else I brought along (think it was Coyote), who were playing crowd control with all those goons pouring into the office. (Mind you, he wasn't completely useless. Three critical hits with his Ares Predator in a row on a big ork gunner made a situation that could have gone very south, very fast, rocket north.)

Another gripe I have: you don't have the chance to bring Coyote or that lady shaman who comes along in the NTSB at the final mission. I thought it would have been nice if I could have tapped them, since they had skin in the game and a reason to want revenge.


[e]The uselessness of decking isn't my secondary gripe, however. It's the fact that summoning is often literally worse than nothing, because those damned spirits go rogue at the worst times, even with hilariously low break-free chances, and then they turn things into a melee-a-trois. Rigging was lackluster, too, but not quite as bad.

[RHat]

[e]The uselessness of decking isn't my secondary gripe, however. It's the fact that summoning is often literally worse than nothing, because those damned spirits go rogue at the worst times, even with hilariously low break-free chances, and then they turn things into a melee-a-trois. Rigging was lackluster, too, but not quite as bad.

Fun trick - if you throw the spirit in deep amongst the enemy, it continues attacking them even if it breaks free, granting you the benefits of the spirit while not having the drain on your AP.

[FuelDrop]

Fun trick - if you throw the spirit in deep amongst the enemy, it continues attacking them even if it breaks free, granting you the benefits of the spirit while not having the drain on your AP.

I love doing that.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Fun trick - if you throw the spirit in deep amongst the enemy, it continues attacking them even if it breaks free, granting you the benefits of the spirit while not having the drain on your AP.

True, it does still act hostile and will usually target the nearest thing. But it's a problem if your shaman's not close to them, summoned the spirit, had it cast a spell or something on its first turn, the pumped 4 IP into it on its next turn and it breaks free on a 9% chance.

[RHat]

Yeah, that would be an issue. On the other hand, shamans don't suffer dumpshock if a spirit gets blown up.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Yeah, that would be an issue. On the other hand, shamans don't suffer dumpshock if a spirit gets blown up.

True. However, if all you require of a drone is that it tanks enemy fire, the rigger can activate it, drive it into the enemy, set it to Hold its position, and then deactivate it. And your drone won't decide it doesn't like you and whip up a high-power lightning ball and drop it right on your whole team, too.

[xsansara]

I was playing as a combat decker and I found decking awesome. Not from the efficiency perspective, but from the epicness.

At telarian the final stage, I already had lost two team mates, decking in myself to kill that elevator, only Coyote trying to protect my ass. That was awesome!

At the UB last stage when decking in with the elf girl, same thing. Matrix and RL in parallel. With some decent AI, this might have been a challenge, too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I never quite managed to orchestrate such a scene on the table, although it is so quintessential SR.

Never used much mages, though. Did a run with both a mage and an adept and they were both pretty much useless.

But that seems to be the theme for SR5, too. Fireball is weaker than any grenade, so the problem with the mystic adept is not so much how overpowered it is, but how to find 10 worthwhile spells, when you already have improved reflexes and boost on a weapon skill.

[ShadowDragon8685]

xsansara: I agree. That was the best bit of SRR's Dead Man's Switch campaign: my main character and the girl decking into the 'trix together, blasting IC, two badasses back-to-back, while Lufta and Jotojunn and Coyote made the Bug spirits pay for every single square they advanced with their hit points.

[Stahlseele]

Yogscast features SRR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMm8sRvk1bQ

[Sengir]

Eh, it takes care of save scumming to an extent and makes it so your choices and luck are a little more visceral.

or more repetitive, if you have to redo several dialogues because you couldn't save afterwards

[Bigity]

The last level would have been much easier if there'd been someone to buy medkits from, during the pre-op gearing up session. Maybe they were there and I just looked right past 'em, but I saw dudes to buy chrome from, guns from, grenades from, drone repair kits from, spells from, yadda yadda yadda -- but no one just selling medkits.

This.