Shadowrun: Returns is live, 20 years since the SNES, 19 years since Genesis Options

[_Pax._]

"arch-e-types" is this the correct pronounciation? I always say "arch-types"...

It's pronounced "ark-eh-type". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/archetype

[phlapjack77]

It's pronounced "ark-eh-type". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/archetype

MEh. Most words are words I've read and made up pronounciations in my head. Speaking them would involve human contact...

[Lionhearted]

Consistency in pronounciation have never been a strong point of the english language (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[bannockburn]

In other news: That looks pretty damn sweet for an alpha version. I want to play that. Now. ^^
I hope they do a character creation video sometime ^^

[Adarael]

I am going to make ALL THE THINGS with their editor.

[ChromeZephyr]

I am going to make ALL THE THINGS with their editor.

Seconded.

[CanRay]

Apparently I've been volunteered to do at least one adventure... In an unofficial capacity, of course.

[_Pax._]

.... oh gods, convert EVERY single Missions adventure to SRR format. *drool*

[Lionhearted]

Hm, I wonder how much effort it would take to make an SR mission in the SC2 editor...

[Stahlseele]

The Troll has SHORTER legs than the Dorf!
And they killed RC! THESE BASTARDS!


@CanRay:
Players all over the world will wonder what you were smoking O.o

[CanRay]

@CanRay:
Players all over the world will wonder what you were smoking O.o

Completely sober.

[Bigity]

"Lady Z" hmmm

"arch-e-types" is this the correct pronounciation? I always say "arch-types"...

looks pretty cool tho. could do without the commentary...

*edit* ok, i'm having a little problem with the commentary - at one point they say the game is "pretty true to the rules", then in the video there's things like an "abomination spirit" and "AP for spirit summoning" and stuff like this. I mean, it still looks cool and fun and all, but I'm not sure I would say it really holds to SR rules that tightly. Better than the MS game, maybe...

I'm with you. The game looks great, and fun....but true to the rules?

Uh, no. The first fight shows someone take '-16 damage' and then '-20'. Then a 1.5X critical hit.

The game looks like it will be fun, and I'll enjoy it...but I'd have preferred something more aligned with the ruleset, even if it was 4A.

[Adarael]

Honestly, I can't think of any good reason to hold to tabletop rules, when they can allow a machine to crunch more complicated math for more nuanced results. I love my d6es as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't want to play a game where it was exactly a 1-to-1 port of the basic rules. If for no other reason than I'd like those rules to be patched and fixed, because I know where to exploit them.

Besides, it's alpha footage. That shit can change wildly, even by beta.

[Stahlseele]

Why?
Because most people agree that the SR3 System is by far the best Rules System in the History of Shadowrun.
Aside from it being so complicated that nobody ever uses it all on the table.
So a computer doing it all would have been pretty much perfect.

[bannockburn]

Why?
Because most people agree that the SR3 System is by far the best Rules System in the History of Shadowrun.

Bold statement. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/proof.gif)

I think taking the attributes and skills and use them as RNGs is a good step. Hitpoints are far more workable in a computerized environment than a condition monitor is, and while I like the notion that the game is supposed to stay 'close to the rules', this does not mean that it must adhere slavishly. Some tabletop rules just cannot be put adequately into a computer game. And I'd rather have the game work and be enjoyable than have it trying and failing.
But yeah, IIRC, they announced that they would use the SR3 ruleset for SRR and the SR4 (or something close) for SRO.

[Adarael]

"Best rules in the history of Shadowrun" just means "Least shitty." SR3 is great for tabletop, but there are massive mechanical problems with it even so. Demanding constraints on developers due to personal familiarity with the rules places an undue onus on them to not innovate and improve.

I love Shadowrun, but I also love improving it.

[Lionhearted]

The combat seem to reflect the way the rules have it play out pretty well, like being able to move even after shooting twice.
Dialogue seem fine and appropriately harkens back to the SNES game, albeit lacking the somewhat cryptic "ask about" system.
The direction of magic is what really strikes me as quite odd, fetishes to summon spirits? feeding them AP?
Spells don't seem to have much oomph, but I put that down to them not having gotten to the graphic spell effects yet, same with the spirit.

[Sengir]

I'm with you. The game looks great, and fun....but true to the rules?

Uh, no. The first fight shows someone take '-16 damage' and then '-20'. Then a 1.5X critical hit.

Whether you have 10 CM boxes and the gun does 5 damage, or 50 HP and the gun does 25 damage, both would be just different notations for the same concept. Similarly, AP are not as foreign to SR as some believe -- the current system of Simple and Complex Actions could also be written as "You get 6 AP per IP, actions cost either 3 or 6".

What I am more concerned about is when the things expressed by these notations change. Like characters having 60 HP while attacks do 10 or 15 damage, which is a far departure from the "glass cannon" concept (might just be a question of difficulty setting, though). Or the weird-ass summoning system...the closest thing to the original would be the "abomination spirit" because it was a spirit of that place. But PCs summoning twisted spirits?

[_Pax._]

Yeah, not loving the spirit summoning thing. Not enthused about the "ley lines" thing either (which are really ley POINTS, since you know, they're not lines across the map).

Also was hoping riggers' drone would be tons more autonomous. Less "I can be that toy over there, OR myself", more "I brought a friend. Sic 'em, robo-buddy!"

Still looks like a game I'll be glad to play, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fabe]

Yeah, not loving the spirit summoning thing. Not enthused about the "ley lines" thing either (which are really ley POINTS, since you know, they're not lines across the map).

Also was hoping riggers' drone would be tons more autonomous. Less "I can be that toy over there, OR myself", more "I brought a friend. Sic 'em, robo-buddy!"

Still looks like a game I'll be glad to play, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well it's still alpha so maybe we will still see more autonomy in drones,maybe a system where you can switch between having the AI control a drone or have the rigger control it directly like in the vid.

[Tiralee]

Re: Hitpoints. SERIOUSLY WTF

Rather than having the quick hit of "oooh, critical" after you've lined up an awesome flanking shot on the mage who's giving you grief (Ala X-Com, methinks.) I'd much rather watch an awesome 14D roll up over the mage's head and cackle, knowing that I've got to notch my Predator 2 yet again.

Also, it means that Trolls are going to be HP tanks. I can see it now and I don't like it one fraggin bit. I can see the discussions, explaining how, no, BODY is used, not HP...but in the end, the cheapest, easiest and most lackluster bastardized hp system is going to creep in. Next, I can't wait to enjoy this with my level 3 thief...

How many of us here think that "normal" people, that is, people who could be marketed to because they liked the concept and have seen the Dungeons & Dragons movie (Sorry, Lord of the Rings) actually dropped cash towards this?

Uh-huh.

How many die-hard rabids wanted to enjoy some decent SR3 smackery after the SR4.5 revamp? The setting, the plots, old friends you've not got around to killing off yet... You know the nostalga-rush that carried the kickstarter through to completion? They're trying, but it reeks of DnD Heroclikery.

This isn't a black-hearted resurrection that is Wastelands 2, which has done something amazing with nothing and retained that creepy "I'm going to die in 5 seconds from now" feeling for hours as you turtle back for supplies... This isn't the grand adventure of wonder that is Planescape Torment 2 - abet with Pathfinder rules (yes!) and some decent themes, this reeks of making do with what's there and stretching things until they snap.

Instead of making a game that makes people drool at the thought of digging through 15 years of crap and blowing off the dust from their first character sheet, so see if they could have made that horribly-unbalanced POS survive through Stuffer Shack without the hand-of-god...They've crowing about the music.

Music.
Sure, it was iconic (sorta) and it really did evoke the horrors of 8-bit musical tyranny...but it's Music.

Music can set a scene - Gameplay makes a game.

Still Steaming,
-Tir

And Dumpshockedstalinmakinglovebabieswithbubba - don't get me started on the spirit thing. Magic IS iconic. The Elementals Vs Spirits of "oh god, what now"? If they can't even attempt (or as the Wastelanders are doing, honestly farming out their needs and paying the people who do it - brilliant concept) getting those right, you may as well call it "Sortarun" In a generic setting near you.

Or the Shadowrun Shooting game.
Oh wait, that was the last one.
That guy? Seriously. Don't. Not even a breath about it.

[phlapjack77]

I understand that certain things might not translate well between mediums. There's probably lots about the pen-n-paper SR game that wouldn't translate to a video game (can't think of anything off-hand, and I don't feel like thinking about it that hard right now).

So it's with this kind of attitude in mind that I go to watch the video. And even with this attitude, it seems mind-boggling that they would make the changes that were shown. Hit points...SR never had HP. Abomination spirits, fetishes to summon spirits. Even the whole "the character takes cover automatically" thing is weird.

[Lionhearted]

A rose by any other name would still smell the same.
Every digital RPG ever have some variant of HP, Health or Life, no matter if you count in hearts, boxes, arbitrary bars, numbers they all are refered to similarly. Not calling it HP would just seem pretentious.
Nevertheless don't judge it before all the cards are on the table.

[CanRay]

The Genesis game had 10% increments. The SNES game had HP. The X-Box game had things thrown at Mitch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Lionhearted]

Actually got featured in the mail section of PC Gamer for my rant about that game, they felt my pain and told me to play Deus ex to consol myself.