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> Immortality at 5th edition chargen?
Cynewulf
post Jul 28 2013, 05:30 AM
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I was wondering if anyone knows how to create a rules-legal way of creating a character that does not age at character creation using 5th edition rules. I don't think that agelessness has any mechanical effect in-game and is strictly a factor in roleplaying, but please correct me if I am wrong. I don't want to create a character that is unbalanced in it's favour, just one that has this interesting concept. So, no HMHVV.

Since age is a disease I was tempted to just purchase Natural Immunity (Age) for 10 Karma. I already have the backstory I wish to use, I just need the mechanics. Short version: he's an ex-corp biotech scientist who came down with a bad case of ethics, destroyed his research, went on the run, and now works as a medic/doctor while funding a private clinic/lab. Drek-all when it comes to combat skills, but extremely intelligent.
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Critias
post Jul 28 2013, 05:39 AM
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Ask your GM. It's either something that will never matter in the slightest in-game (and so is veritably flavor text and nothing more), it's something that he'll have a knee-jerk reaction against in an instinctively human way (so he'll think it's overpowered), or it's something he's worried will be used to try and gain a bunch of free Knowledge skills or something else faintly useful (so he'll dicker price with you, and you'll figure something out).
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Glyph
post Jul 28 2013, 05:57 AM
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It's the kind of thing that doesn't make a bit of difference, mechanically, but the GM might still nix it if it doesn't fit into the broader verisimilitude of how the in-game universe works.

Strictly by the rules, the only true immortals are a bunch of Mary Sue authorial GMPCs who come with a lot of other special snowflake abilities. The only rules-legal way to have an effectively immortal character as a PC is to use age rejuvenation genetech (assuming that it still exists in SR5).
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Cynewulf
post Jul 28 2013, 06:26 AM
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Yeah, the concept was a former scientist working on a Leonization-clone. It's not a huge problem, I can always drop that aspect of the backstory. I was more interested in the theory-crafting of getting it to work.
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DeathStrobe
post Jul 28 2013, 06:52 AM
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QUOTE (Cynewulf @ Jul 28 2013, 12:26 AM) *
Yeah, the concept was a former scientist working on a Leonization-clone. It's not a huge problem, I can always drop that aspect of the backstory. I was more interested in the theory-crafting of getting it to work.

Sounds like he'd be a relatively new immortal, which would have almost zero impact on crunch. You could always say he think's he's immortal or at the least doesn't show traditional signs of aging. So he's only pseudo immortal, not the real deal, and the only way he'd be able to find out is to not die for a few thousand years. Or maybe it has a horrible side effect which would prevent it from being desirable, like instant bad luck. Or maybe its a freak accident and simply can never be reproduced, yet the corps wouldn't know that, and would put a price on his head, like the wanted quality from Runner's Companion. I don't know, all kinds of interesting ways to play this out, but doesn't sound like it'd be broken.
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DoomFrog
post Jul 28 2013, 07:13 AM
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Well if it is possible for your character you could be an elf. Then just claim to be a one of the elves that is immortal.
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Nal0n
post Jul 28 2013, 08:19 AM
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QUOTE (DoomFrog @ Jul 28 2013, 09:13 AM) *
Well if it is possible for your character you could be an elf. Then just claim to be a one of the elves that is immortal.


Well yes, and have Dragon Speech and Dragon Magic and most certainly be unimaginably old as the real Immortal Elves were created in the 4th World (by Dragons, in rituals involving Dragon Blood ...)?

Somehow I cannot see that happen...
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Elfenlied
post Jul 28 2013, 09:27 AM
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Just play a child of two immortal elves.
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Sendaz
post Jul 28 2013, 09:44 AM
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QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Jul 28 2013, 04:27 AM) *
Just play a child of two immortal elves.

Yes, if you want ETERNAL nagging from your folks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

*commcall in the middle of a run*

But Mom, I'm 345 I am perfectly capable of pulling a run with my pals ......

Those short lifers? When I was your age......


And spirits helps you if Harlequin is the father.....
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Elfenlied
post Jul 28 2013, 09:52 AM
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QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jul 28 2013, 10:44 AM) *
Yes, if you want ETERNAL nagging from your folks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

*commcall in the middle of a run*

But Mom, I'm 345 I am perfectly capable of pulling a run with my pals ......

Those short lifers? When I was your age......


And spirits helps you if Harlequin is the father.....


Reminds me of the time when one of my players wanted to play Damien Knight's lovechild. The character was rather surprised that Daddy insisted she spent Christmas with him, especially since her team agreed on a run where the timetables conflicted.

That said, a younger IE could be possible if the other players and DM can handle the potential snowflakyness. E.g. a child between Harlequin and Frosty. Might be really hard to justify why such a character would run the shadows though.
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Sendaz
post Jul 28 2013, 10:11 AM
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QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Jul 28 2013, 04:52 AM) *
Reminds me of the time when one of my players wanted to play Damien Knight's lovechild. The character was rather surprised that Daddy insisted she spent Christmas with him, especially since her team agreed on a run where the timetables conflicted.
yep. A good one for ideas on next gen is looking at the old diceless Amber games, where you played the next generation from the Chronicles of Amber set. The system itself was meh, but the bits playing up the angst between Elder and player was interesting.

And if you got powerful/rich folks that doesn't automatically mean you get access to same. Rather you have to swallow some pride and ask for help, which will always come with a price. Bet the player would have been even more surprised if Daddy had invited some suitable young men to the Christmas table with the subtle hint that a power marriage might be advisable.

QUOTE
That said, a younger IE could be possible if the other players and DM can handle the potential snowflakyness. E.g. a child between Harlequin and Frosty. Might be really hard to justify why such a character would run the shadows though.

Actually I could see them slumming in the shadows just to rebel & revel a bit out from under the thumb of the folks.
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hermit
post Jul 28 2013, 10:32 AM
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Using the Immunity critter power as a quality is how it has been done in past editions for NPC. The immortal elf package is, IIRC, Immunity (Age, Disease). BuildKarma price to be neogiated.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Jul 28 2013, 10:39 AM
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Quite honestly, I don't see a problem with a character being immune to age. Unless your GM is planning some kind of a generation-spanning game, it just means that your character gets to be old, yet young looking, at the game start. My last perfectly human character achieved that without any Immunities by simply having a backstory of having been Léonized twice. If it somehow comes up, in that someone has a spell that ages people dramatically as a way to hurt them... Well, hey, they're in for a surprise, and you probably paid what, 5BP for it?

Immunity to Disease would be costlier, but I wouldn't put it too dear, either. The idea of a PC being a "young" Immortal Elf is interesting, especially if they were like, born in the late 1900s and want nothing to do with Harlequin, Ehran, or their like, and just want to get on with the business of running the Shadows.
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Falconer
post Jul 28 2013, 01:23 PM
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Under SR4 there was also that free spirit pact... but the downsides to the spirit pact where HUGE.


You were the *ONLY* functioning copy of the spirits formula... making you a potential kidnap target. As well as your aura being noticably altered (good luck with that without a good masking ability).

Not only that spirits have a lot of things that they need their spirit formula present for. Such as collecting karma payments for services rendered to other folks. (1hour ritual per point of karma) Or are you the spirits only source of karma? How much are you paying the spirit regularly! At what point does the free spirit simply off you to get a better host willing to pay more?

Just pointing this out because I know a few powergamers who got glassy eyed at the immunity to age and didn't bother to read the fine print and string together the logical implications of being the only functioning copy of the spirits formula. (as a copy of the spirits formula... the spirit always knows where you are... because a free spirit always knows where the copies of it's formulas are!).
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Freya
post Jul 28 2013, 02:41 PM
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Assuming your GM agrees with your interpretation of age being a disease for the purposes of the Quality, I don't see why Immunity wouldn't work. You could even make the argument that since it's a natural disease rather than an artificial one, it should only cost 4 Karma. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I'd have to echo the points that others have brought up in terms of setting versimilitude and actual effects on the game, though. If you're not planning to have a campaign span decades or centuries of in-game time, does it really matter? If your character's immortal and a hundred years old, how are they different from a character who's a hundred years old and underwent Léonization but isn't immortal? (I don't mean for those questions to swing you one way or another, I'm just curious.)
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Sendaz
post Jul 28 2013, 02:54 PM
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I guess the question is what sort of immortality are you wanting. If it just means unaging that is one thing but if this a backdoor way of getting mucho regen, expect the GM to balk unless your willing to pay a bit for it.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Jul 28 2013, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE (Freya @ Jul 28 2013, 10:41 AM) *
I'd have to echo the points that others have brought up in terms of setting versimilitude and actual effects on the game, though. If you're not planning to have a campaign span decades or centuries of in-game time, does it really matter? If your character's immortal and a hundred years old, how are they different from a character who's a hundred years old and underwent Léonization but isn't immortal? (I don't mean for those questions to swing you one way or another, I'm just curious.)


Well, a character who's been Léonized probably knows what it was like to grow old, and then elderly, to get all arthritic and slow down and miss the days when they were young and vital and could run around... And then somehow got them back. A character who hasn't aged never did that.
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Elfenlied
post Jul 28 2013, 03:07 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jul 28 2013, 04:02 PM) *
Well, a character who's been Léonized probably knows what it was like to grow old, and then elderly, to get all arthritic and slow down and miss the days when they were young and vital and could run around... And then somehow got them back. A character who hasn't aged never did that.


Which makes for awesome roleplaying opportunities.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Jul 28 2013, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Jul 28 2013, 10:07 AM) *
Which makes for awesome roleplaying opportunities.


Oh, I agree, but so does a character who hasn't aged.
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Freya
post Jul 28 2013, 03:28 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jul 28 2013, 08:10 AM) *
Oh, I agree, but so does a character who hasn't aged.


Insofar as their not-aging affecting how they relate to the world around them, yeah, but I think that has to do with the idea that someone who's immortal experiences age in a way that others can't. Since we were quoting the Highlander series theme music in another thread, I'll use that as an example: Sure, Duncan's however many hundreds of years old in the series. It's only noteworthy because most other people aren't that old; likewise, Methos was such a big deal because he was old even by immortal standards. By contrast, Frosty's an "immortal elf" and gets involved in all the silliness that comes with the territory, but her age isn't anything to write home about at this point.

The question that comes to my mind is, if you're going to make a character who's both immortal and old enough that their immortality matters (instead of, say, forty-something), how do you explain them being on the same relative skill level as someone a fraction of their age? To me, that's almost the more interesting roleplaying experience.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Jul 28 2013, 03:39 PM
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QUOTE (Freya @ Jul 28 2013, 11:28 AM) *
The question that comes to my mind is, if you're going to make a character who's both immortal and old enough that their immortality matters (instead of, say, forty-something), how do you explain them being on the same relative skill level as someone a fraction of their age? To me, that's almost the more interesting roleplaying experience.


Head injury, maybe, or their skills degraded because they spent a lot of time lying low.

The character I mentioned, the one who was old then Léonized? She was once part of Echo Mirage. She did battle in the Internet against the Crash 1.0, back when hot sim VR required a sensory deprivation tank; there was a time in the Sixth World when she was a hotter hacker than FastJack was at the same time. She was a Lt. Commander in the UCAS Air Force, and prior to that the USAF.

Then she spent twenty years keeping her head down. Working as a thoroughly boring wageslave at Ares, where she wouldn't get noticed, wouldn't be targeted for extractions or interrogations. She existed comfortably, got old, and her skills went unused. They got rusty. She Leonized shortly before the return of the comet. Spent ten years as a 'Runner. Got Léonized and a new face. Started over again with a broad range of skills, none of them higher than 4.
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Lionhearted
post Jul 28 2013, 04:12 PM
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Just want to point out something for the sake of debate, AFAIK No elf in the 6th world has yet to die of old age or even started to show signs of aging... How can we not all of those knife-ear buggers are immortal? *Tinfoil hat*
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