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> Secondary skills, What to pick
FuelDrop
post Jul 28 2013, 11:17 AM
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What are the all time great secondary skills? That is, skills to pick up after you have your role core competencies (EG social skills for faces, magic skills for mages, matrix skills for deckers and technomancers, vehicle skills for riggers, combat skills for pretty much everyone)
A couple on my shortlist are:
Demolitions.
Stealth.
Etiquette.
First Aid.
Chemistry.
Con.
Palming.
Drive (ground).
Computer.

Any others you can think of to add to the list? Even if you just have every character throw a single point into it just so you can do things like access the matrix competently or drive without autopilot.
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Freya
post Jul 28 2013, 01:59 PM
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Do you consider Perception a primary skill or a secondary skill?
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FuelDrop
post Jul 28 2013, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE (Freya @ Jul 28 2013, 09:59 PM) *
Do you consider Perception a primary skill or a secondary skill?

Primary. Every character should have perception, period.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Jul 28 2013, 02:07 PM
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Drive. Any character should be at bare minimum capable of throwing a friend in the back and manually/semiautomatically operating a motor vehicle.
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ElFenrir
post Jul 28 2013, 02:08 PM
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I admit, I've always considered at least a base Etiquette skill-one or two points-fairly primary. That's just me though. (Now, other social skills-yep, I put them as secondary, though many people take at least a tiny bit of Negotiation on a lot of characters. Actually I'd probably put that as one of the top secondary skills.)

Perception, for me, is a 'primary' skill. It's useful for anything, really. That list above I think covers a lot of good secondary skills so far though. I'd also add maybe a Mechanic skill to that list, in particular Industrial Mechanic. Industrial Mechanic is what I basically call the 'MacGyver' skill.
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FuelDrop
post Jul 28 2013, 02:09 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jul 28 2013, 10:07 PM) *
Drive. Any character should be at bare minimum capable of throwing a friend in the back and manually/semiautomatically operating a motor vehicle.

Already on the list, for that exact reason. Great minds think alike... and sometimes you allow me to tag along for the ride (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Freya
post Jul 28 2013, 02:09 PM
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If the GM lets you get away with it, I like the idea of Hardware and keeping a toolkit around in case you need to improvise a piece of gear. (On the other hand, I may have watched too much Burn Notice recently.) Of course, now that bricking is a thing, every group is going to want to make friends with someone with the Hardware skill.
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Sendaz
post Jul 28 2013, 02:39 PM
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QUOTE (Freya @ Jul 28 2013, 09:09 AM) *
(On the other hand, I may have watched too much Burn Notice recently.)

They totally needed an episode where Michael runs into an aging MacGyver and the two of them have to work together.

Oooh the things they could make. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

For secondary I would probably include Swimming and Navigation.

Yeah most times you are on dry land, but you go where the runs take you. And if I go overboard in bad weather, I would rather not try to use the default to stay afloat.

Navigation is so often just overlooked, but it so handy. Actually being able to follow a map is a declining skill even in the present day, let alone the SR future where most folk rarely leave their own areas.

From the book, this skill enables characters to read maps, use GPS devices, follow AR nav points, or follow a course by landmarks or general direction sense. Navigation applies to both AR and
non-AR-enhanced environments.
So even with AR if you don't have the skill, you are defaulting and that could mean making a wrong turn somewhere. Not critical for the average Joe trying to find the newly opened AZ-Mart, but could be messy if you are trying to skirt a bad area or making a meet.

Plus just having a general sense of direction is handy. When I tell people to go north or south and they give me a blank look and I have to go back to just go right or go left, you have to wonder at the species.
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Shortstraw
post Jul 28 2013, 02:41 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jul 29 2013, 12:07 AM) *
Drive. Any character should be at bare minimum capable of throwing a friend in the back and manually/semiautomatically operating a motor vehicle.

Nothing more fun than a 2 reaction mage with gremlins 4 defaulting driving his max armoured rocket bus...
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Freya
post Jul 28 2013, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jul 28 2013, 07:39 AM) *
They totally needed an episode where Michael runs into an aging MacGyver and the two of them have to work together.

Oooh the things they could make. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


And then they'd spend the rest of the episode going "FI, DON'T TOUCH THAT!" and trying to keep Michael's apartment from exploding.

If we can expand this to include Qualities, I might add Guts to the list. There are way too many critters out there that have access to some kind of fear-based power, especially if your GM likes to use them properly.

Also, language skills. Maybe it's because my GMs tend to put me in what I call "naked in the desert" situations, but having a face whose social skills are capped at 0 because you don't speak the language and lost your linguasofts really sucks.
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Wakshaani
post Jul 28 2013, 03:23 PM
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Man, just about *every* skill is needed, but, I'm an admited skill junkie. Skills that you *have* to have are a combat skill, a back-up combat skill, sneaking, etiquette, and perception, but man, there are so many afte rthat that are still vital.

4 dice in a skill is a darn handy number, serving as a nice bit of emergency back-up. (This doesn't apply to Demolitions, however. Eithe rlearn it a lot or not at all, learning it a little's just bad for everybody, ol' Eddie Eightfingers.)

So, with a 3 Logic or 2 Charisma, I want 1-2 in a bunch of skills to at least get by in life, plus a few for my strengths as well.

For instance, Athletics Group 1-2 gives you basic competency in things like swimming, climbing a fence, or outrunning the cops, all important, but not the kinds of things where you need 5-8 in it.

Unarmed Combat is a nice backup for anyone... you never know when you'll have to go someplace where you just can't sneak your gear in.

Throwing Weapons 1-2 is enough to get a grenade where it needs to be. Defaulting with your untrained self and Agility 3 is a good way to make your (surviving!) team members hate you.

Pilot Ground Craft 1-2 is one of those things that everyone needs. Nobody wants to be the 'runner on a bus.

Con of 1-2 will get you past problems, as will Intimidation, and there's just no excuse for not having enough Negotiation to buy the stuff you need. 4 dice for shopping will at least get you ammo without having to overpay. Those Cha 1 Street Sams with no Negotiation ... man. Having to beg people to shop for you has to be hard when you have 0 dice for begging. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Disguise helps get you around cameras (Or, more precisely, helps you not care about them), and Navigation tells you where shortcuts are and how to get to obscure places where GPS doesn't go ... like teh Barrens.

Surely you've at least a smattering in a second language, right? RIght?

A little First Aid goes a LONG way, while 1-2 in Cybertechnology and a kit lets the Street Sam keep his bits in working order for routine needs. You hate to drop a hundred nuyen to see yoru Cyberdoc every time you need your fingers tightened after all. Speaking of which, if you shoot things a lot, you should reallly have a point or two in Armorer, to help you service your weapons.

It never hurts to have a mechanic around who can keep your bike running, but an indutrial one who knows what those buttons do? Priceless.

1-2 in Electronic Warfare will help you do comm operations well, deal with jamming to a degree, and let you watch a few broadcasts for free when you have downtime.

Lastly, everybody needs to have 4 dice in COmputer, just to survive the modern world. Those things are *everywhere*. Really sucks when you go to give CLyde a 50 Nuyen bribe at the bar and wind up tossing him 5K instead, you know?
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ShadowDragon8685
post Jul 28 2013, 03:56 PM
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QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Jul 28 2013, 11:23 AM) *
Lastly, everybody needs to have 4 dice in COmputer, just to survive the modern world. Those things are *everywhere*. Really sucks when you go to give CLyde a 50 Nuyen bribe at the bar and wind up tossing him 5K instead, you know?


Not for Clyde. (Or is it CLyde?)

Also: How to earn a Loyalty 2, Connections 3 contact by mistake. (Hey, there are worse people to mistakenly endear yourself to than a bartender.)
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ElFenrir
post Jul 28 2013, 03:58 PM
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I actually thing, IRT Cybertechnology, it's better with people with limbs. Problem is with the sam that has Bone Lacing, Muscle Replacement, and the like...repairing themselves would probably require a lot more than a Cybertechnology of 2; at that point they're looking at the Biotech Skill Group, and they *probably* want it at more than 2, since it is, essentially, 'do it yourself surgery'(Yes, the Terminator did it, but it would be a BIT different than a regular dude with inner implants.) My 'Internal Ware' sammy has an Armorer of 2 instead to help take care of his tools, and a Street Doc contact for the other stuff.

Now, with plain ol' limbs? Cybertech, with perhaps even a Limb specialization, and a kit is golden.
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Wakshaani
post Jul 28 2013, 04:02 PM
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Granted on the Cyberlimbs vs Muscles bit. Recalibrating your own eyes is probably a wee bit hard as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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quentra
post Jul 28 2013, 08:24 PM
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I usually dump drive and default to reaction, cause driving is for chumps. (I do this is real life as well. Not the defaulting part. Yet. Driving in NYC is actually more hazardous than walking.) You almost always need con, at least a point in Etiquette (street), that shit is primary or whenever the HTR negotiator goes 'Just give up, we won't hurt you,' you'll believe em. Most of the mechanic skills are useless unless you're playing MacGuyver or a rigger, but Demolitions is definitely always on my secondary skill list. Shit goes boom is useful in nearly every situation, including sex.
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Slide
post Jul 29 2013, 07:43 AM
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Con. If you can't wow them with knowledge bedazzle them with bull shit.
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