What's the best way to twink you've ever heard of?, Or done? Options

[Zazen]

Yeah, Reach -1 weapon foci is the most frightening idea I've seen on this thread so far. That wins the prize.

[Lantzer]

I wouldn't worry about those -1 reach foci: Only surgeons need worry about them.

That and the character carrying one: "Why was I paid to carry a focus inside me? And who paid me? Damn amnesia flaw!"

(Teeth are reach 0, right?)

[A Clockwork Lime]

No, they're Reach -1. Reach 0 is your fists (and thus your arms). Reach -1 basically means you're putting a vital area -- ie, your head -- right up on the opponent.

[nezumi]

That idea above would be fun in 2nd edition... target the focus with your fireball > ) (talk about needing mouthwash!)

Actually, I just realized one...

Take your vicious gun adept. Make him a troll. Have him wield, 1 in each hand, the Steyr-Aug Carbine (or some equally vicious rifle) for about 10D four times a phase (or two FA's, if you have the recoil comp. for it).

Or, if your GM isn't paying attention, give him a pair of assault cannons, 18D twice a phase. If your GM REALLY isn't paying attention, grab that light rail gun for LN damage.

[Lantzer]

Ah. Ok, then. Ew.

"Momma? Why is that man biting the fire elemental?"

[Lilt]

One note is that technically the weapons aren't -1 reach weapons, you just have a reach penalty when using them on your head. Example: You could take the horns out and use them as a 0 reach weapon in melee.

[Joker9125]

Using point system

Shamatic Elven Conjurer

Edges Flaws
Bonus attribute Point CHAR +2
Exceptional attribute Point CHAR +2
3 boxes of high pain tolorance +6
Allergy uncommon sever Chicken -4
Night Blindness -2
Sensitive System -2
Amnesia lvl 1 -2

23 attribute points
B - 2
Q - 2
S - 1
C - 10
I - 6
W - 6

12 Active Skill points
Conjuring/Summoning [5/7]
Sorcery 6

25 resource points 650K

Use 15 spell points to initiate with the meditation ordeal and snag invoking
Now spend 50K on two more spell points leaving you with 12 and buy a force 6 spirit focus

I chose a Bacchus shaman and hearth spirits for my spirit focus.
I got 14D6 to summon spirits.

In 30 seconds this character can summon 10 force 5 greater form hearth spirits for 5L drain and if im not mistaken he can have all of them with him all the same time.

This character can astrally project and command his army of spirits from the astral leaving his body safe and secure. with the remaining 240K :nuyen: buy some more spell points and get something like stunbolt or stunball. If im not mistaken stunbolt and stunnball are the same on the astral as manabolt and manaball with less drain.

[A Clockwork Lime]

Strictly by the rules, Charisma is limited to 9. Exceptional Attribute doesn't benefit a character at creation, only their growth potential.

You'd also be better off 33 Spell Points to initiate three times in order to gain Centering, Channeling, and Invoking. Your spirits will be way more scary that way, especially if playing a Hermetic Magician who can put all his gusto into the Summoning Act (thereby increasing his chances of scoring more successes). Spend your cash on the focus and the Spell Points for it; I think you have more than enough with 650k¥ (Force 6 = 10 more Spell Points [250k¥] and 360,000¥ for the focus itself.. so yep, and you even have enough cash leftover for other stuff).

Extra dice are nice, sure, but with Centering you can score more successes, with Invoking you create more powerful spirits (and Force 3 Great Form Spirits can be done practically as easy as a regular spirit), and you can channel them inside yourself to boost your combat effectiveness if you get into a fight.

I'm also assuming you made him a full magician but are just focusing on conjuring. Otherwise, projection is right out and Sorcery is only good for astral combat and giving your future ally spirit some spunk.

Not a bad build, but you could do a lot better with minimal tweaking. Especially since the funds are pretty much wasted here. A focus is nice, sure, but you can squeeze out more bang for your buck without one.

[Joker9125]

Im not familliar with the charisma is limited to 9 rule could you please give a page number?

as far as starting characters are concerned the hermatic mage isnt that scary because you have to spend spell points on spirits(ill find the page number if you want) so you would be able to conjure but untill your first run is completed you wolnt be able to have any spirits.

[A Clockwork Lime]

It's not that Charisma is limited to 9, it's just that you can't put more than 6 points into any given attribute before mods are applied (SR3 p. 55). So that's Charisma 6, +2 from being an Elf, and +1 from Bonus Attribute Point. The only thing Exceptional Attribute does is increase your Racial Modified Limit and Attribute Maximum. It doesn't let you assign another point there. Again, strictly by the rules. I don't follow those rules, nor does anyone I remember gaming with, but dem's the rules nonetheless.

Also, a hermetic magician only has to spend points on spirits if he wants to begin the game with some that are already bonded without having to roll or pay for enchanting materials for (since its assumed he did so prior to the start of the game). The moment he's in the game, he can summon his heart out, including before his first run.

I mean, if a Hermetic mage really wanted to, he could start the game as a grade 1 initiate with Invoking and a bonded 6 Great Form Elemental with 17 services available without spending a single nuyen on resources. It'd be a stupid way to go (the equivalence of 575,000¥ was blown on that elemental), but he could do it.

[Joker9125]

Interesting. I am not fimilliar with the channeling metamagic. Centering and invoking yes but channeling isnt something ive heard of in any of my books. Could you please explain how it works and which book its in?. I also noticed that most of the twinked characters on this thread are magic users of some sort.

[A Clockwork Lime]

It's from Target: Awakened Lands. Basically, it lets any conjurer channel a spirit into their bodies sort of like what Hougans do. Except youre in full control and the spirit's mind is suppressed. You gain access to most of their abilities, your combat abilities skyrocket, and if they're a Great Form, you even get Immunity to Normal Weapons. It's got a high Drain, though, so it's not something you want to use 24/7. But it's definitely nice to have when the drek hits the fan.

The most "twinkable" character in the game, though, is the Face with Resources A, almost all of which are spent on powerful contacts and a Pocket Secretary. :) Sure, making one an initiated Grade 2 adept (or adept of the Magician's Way with a hard-on for Control Manipulations) with Centering: Social Skills would make one more powerful, but magic boosting a character's potential is true for just about any character.

[Lilt]

It's actually easier to get your charisma to 10 just using a force 6 spell and a charisma attribute of 4, which any troll can do.

Or you could do what I did and use cha 9 and a force 3 spell to get 12 charisma, then combine it with a trauma damper so you can summon any force 6 spirits with no drain. Sadly we weren't allowed to initiate at chargen, and the game was cancelled before we finished (started?) the 2nd run, but he could have summoned force 6 great-form spirits with no drain given a few more karma... *sighs*

[edit]And yes, his second metamagical technique would have been channeling given the chance... Force 2-3 great forms are easy enough to chanel when you have charisma 12 and a force 4 ally[/edit]

[Lantzer]

[Joker9125]

Im suprised no one has mentioned the home ground edge for conjurers. Home ground is my best friend because Jo mage goes into his home ground and conjurers with the -1TN modifier for all active skill tests including conjuring then goes on a run and uses those spirits conjured on his homeground to own everything.

[A Clockwork Lime]

It's better for Hermetic Magicians, as well as a lifestyle with the Power/Manaline bonus.

Like I said, your build was decent but there's a lot you can do to make a better conjurer. :)

[A Clockwork Lime]

[Lilt]

[A Clockwork Lime]

<just sits there with his mouth gaping open>

You're joking right? You can't seriously believe what you just said. Because if you do, please feel free to show us where it has any other Reach, or another example of a weapon that has varying Reach scores in its natural form.

I'm willing to agree that the wording was poorly chosen (as is the case in numerous areas), but come on...

[Lilt]

IIRC: Short axes and clubs have been made out-of ram's horns and ram's horn is a valid horn format. As such the weapons themselves don't suffer a reach penalty, the penalty is evidently suffered from the use of the weapon and not fom the weapon itself.

If you argue that the use of the weapon should factor into the cost, then why don't trolls pay extra for weapon foci? Would trolls have effectively reach 0 for determining how much fang weapon foci cost?

As you said,

[Lantzer]

Lime, I think I see where Lilt is coming from. What's the difference between a reach 0 weapon and a reach -1 weapon?

Where you put it. Reach 0 assumes you have use of your limbs.

Your average reach 0 short knife (when used normally) would be a reach -1 weapon when gripped between your teeth, using Lilt's thinking. The rational? "Reach -1 basically means you're putting a vital area -- ie, your head -- right up on the opponent. " Your words, I believe.

EDIT - I think I take to long composing posts.

[Zazen]

[A Clockwork Lime]

But the point is, weapons have different Reaches. That's what makes a weapon a weapon. Sure, you could cut the tip of a spear off and use it as a dagger, but that doesn't make a spear a Reach 0 weapon, either. Likewise, you could duct-tape a knife to the end of a staff and use it as a Reach 2 weapon if you really wanted to... so does that mean knives should be treated as Reach 2 weapons for enchanting purposes, too?

In any case, the rules for weapon foci work just fine with a Reach -1 weapon, though anything below that obviously breaks it (luckily, there's no such thing). The difference in cost between a Reach -1 Weapon Focus and a Reach 0 Weapon Focus is identical to the difference between a Reach 0 and a Reach 1 Weapon Focus or the difference between a Reach 1 and Reach 2 focus (ie, 100,000 nuyen and 1 Karma per Force).

Sure, a Reach -1 weapon is cheaper and easier to bond, but it's still a Reach -1 weapon. That sucks in combat, especially if you don't invest in Close Combat. But that's true of any weapon in the game; they all have their downfalls, and most of them can be made up for one way or another. Doesn't change the fact that their Reach is their Reach, even if you could break the weapon and use it in some other fashion to gain a different reach.

It's nicer during character creation for its cheapness and relative ease for making up for its downfalls, but I'd personally rather have other weapons if I could afford them.

[Lilt]

The easiest way to think about it, and probably the way the designers meant it, is that higher reach weapons may require the use of more orichalcum (or just take more enchanting to begin with) in their construction.

I would allow a character to tape a dagger to the end of a pole and use it as a spear (as long as he tied it well), but he's got to be touching the dagger for it to be active so he wouldn't gain the bonus from the focus.

[Lantzer]

Perhaps I see it differently, Lime.

A magic spear is a reach 2 weapon because it is a fairly long weapon.
A magic knife is a reach 0 weapon because it is a fairly short weapon.
A magic knife on a stick is a reach 0 weapon on a reach 2 stick. It acts as a reach2 weapon in combat, but you certainly aren't going to use it as a magic weapon, because you aren't holding it anymore.
A magic spear with the haft cut off is a Reach 0 weapon. It's up to the GM whether it still counts as magic, since it has been damaged.

You have two short blades in front of you to be enchanted. One is going to be used as
a short knife, while the other is going to be used as a forehead ornament.

Is one easier to enchant than the other? Why?

Edit: I'm _Definitely_ too slow on the response.