 What's the best way to twink you've ever heard of?, Or done? |
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 Apr 30 2004, 02:36 AM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 26-February 02 From: The Golden Orchards Member No.: 2,011  |
By the rules in Rigger 3, and only 'cause they're stupid. Build a character with the highest reactions you can, and the most quickness possible. Add in a trauma damper, and, if you really want, a platelet factory. Hide near a tight run that you know a rigger you don't like runs his T-bird down. Jump in front of it at the last minute, so you hit it. You take (speed/10)D damage, which turns into 9(or 8) boxes of physical, and one of stun. The T-bird takes (speed/10)L. Remember that T-birds are running at 1000 speed, so both of you haven't got any chance of soaking. However, because you didn't take deadly and pass out, the rigger now has to make a crash test, which he'll probably fail at that speed, especially with that +1 TN from the light damage :D .
Another use for this character is stupid assassination methods. Fly over the target at high altitude. Have some way of aiming your fall. Jump. Land on the target. You both take deadly, but you take 9 physical and 1 stun. Crawl away, job done. For more sickness, have one of the cyber-implant nano-medkits that can heal you on their own, and end up coming away from ANY fall on 3 boxes of physical. :D |
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Apr 30 2004, 02:37 AM
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#52
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-July 03 Member No.: 4,963 |
I can't let this lie there uncorrected. Until you involve the naval-scale weapons from Rigger 3, you can not under any circumstances deal more than Deadly Physical with any one attack. This was deliberate, designed to protect characters from just dying instantly from a single unexpected attack. Unless the NPC views it as personal, they'll just shoot him until he goes down, then they'll do the other PCs before finishing off the dying. If NPCs think like that, the PCs at least have a fighting chance of saving dying comrades. The closest thing to the rules you say exist are the Deadlier Over-Damage rules listed on page 126 BBB. They are listed as an optional rule for correcting ridiculous situations. The Deadlier Over-Damage rule is an optional rule, NOT the standard rules. Amusingly enough, even if you use the Deadlier Over-Damage rule, The Mercenary sample character could still survive being shot square in the head with a Panther Assault cannon. 13*1.5 = 19.5, Panther cannons are 18D, Deadlier Over-Damage wouldn't apply unless you used the extra-deadly version. Even then, it's possible to get to 18 body on a starting level troll without even leaving the core rules. 6 base, +5 troll, +1 troll dermal armor, +2 titanium bone lacing, +3 more cybernetic dermal armor, +1 two cyberarms=18 body. |
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Apr 30 2004, 02:59 AM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 596 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,112 |
I think you'd be surprised how many optional rules GMs would take up to kill a munchkin.
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Apr 30 2004, 03:03 AM
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#54
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 407 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,183 |
Can the Guardian Angel biotech you on its own? I thought it merely acted as a medkit (rating 6) with a -2 modifier. I know it can stabilize deadly damage, but I thought that was the extent of its autonomy. |
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Apr 30 2004, 03:09 AM
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#55
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
(M&M page 91 to confirm) It attempts to wake the unconscious, stabilize those at deadly physical, and doubles the time to get an extra box of overflow if it can't stabilize.
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Apr 30 2004, 03:15 AM
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#56
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 407 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,183 |
So would you rule that if you take a medium wound, it would roll biotech of 6 with a -2 modifier and, if successful, take you down to light? Anyone? |
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Apr 30 2004, 03:21 AM
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#57
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
No, it lists those three as the automatic behaviour. Doing a biotech test every 3 seconds is not a listed automatic behaviour, so I would not allow a Guardian Angel to do so.
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Apr 30 2004, 03:22 AM
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#58
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 407 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,183 |
Okay, that's how I read it. Thanks.
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Apr 30 2004, 03:26 AM
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#59
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 26-February 02 From: The Golden Orchards Member No.: 2,011 |
But the non-implant nano-medkit can heal wounds on its own once it is activated, and can, if the user has no skill, roll on purely its own dice with no penalties. Therefore, all you have to do after dropping from a great hight, and staying concious due to implant insanity, is use "activate implanted cyberware" as a free action and then lie still for a couple of minutes and then be on a medium wound. Looking at the HALO rules, you're about as well off jumping with implants than training for months without them.
Edit: And that's all the problems you can come up with for that entire post? Wow. You let the first one through. I would have more problems with Body 1 humans with one implant causing T-birds to crash than people jumping from high altitude and living, people have done that IRL with, occasionally, very little real damage beyond minor bruising. |
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Apr 30 2004, 03:29 AM
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#60
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Wow... troll special forces are scary ;)
Drop 'em from a plane and they get up to walk away from the crater of whatever they smashed on the way down. |
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Apr 30 2004, 03:48 AM
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#61
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 407 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,183 |
Oh, I wasn't talking about any problems with your post, that's just a question I've been wondering on for a while. Seemed like a good time to ask other people's opinion on it. |
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Apr 30 2004, 10:12 AM
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#62
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 26-February 02 From: The Golden Orchards Member No.: 2,011 |
Yeah, but Troll Spec Forces might just show up on radar on the way down. Dwarf Spec Forces, however, present a much smaller profile to radar, and, with the frankly stupid weights given for trolls, have a noicable increase in physical density, thereby allowing them to crater better.
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Apr 30 2004, 10:34 AM
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#63
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
IIRC allowing normal adepts to buy/spend spell points as a starting character is still forbidden in the official books. It does make sense that if a mage can do it, or a physmage, then so could an adept... But these are the SR rules we're talking about here. I wouldn't be surprised if house rules (yours even?) put that right. Also: it costs 3 karma to joing a group, not 2. |
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May 1 2004, 12:30 AM
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#64
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Let's see...
Buying resources multiple times. Originally, the trick was to buy 1 mil two or three times; but then I discovered that I could buy 500 nuyen twenty-thousand times, also giving me more points to spend on my character. Taking a physmage, buying nothing but Magical power. Using those points to initiate, and buying more Magical Power, and using spellpoints from that to initiate further. Later, rinse, repeat. (Yes, both these depend on loopholes that any respectable GM would shut down in a heartbeat. I'm not going to give away all my best secrets, after all. :D) |
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May 1 2004, 12:36 AM
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#65
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
You can't purchase the same Priority multiple times. That's not a loophole, it's blatant cheating. The Build-Point system is still a Priority system, you just set how many build points you're applying to each Priority instead of using a letter. Except for the cost of each Priority, they follow the same rules as standard character creation (SRComp p. 13).
Buying nothing Magical Power is hardly a beneficial loophole (especially since from the point after you initiate once, your Spell Point income is less than what you're spending to initatiate). The penalties outweigh the benefits, unless all you plan on doing is using Centering and maybe some other skill-intensive techniques like Divining or Psychometry. Of course, since you're initiating only to buy more Magicla Power, you're not getting any metamagic techniques either, so it's a fruitless endeavor. But hey, at least you'll have an Astral Pool that you can't use without more magical augmentation and you'll definitely be losing Magic every time you make a Magic Loss test. Good job. |
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May 1 2004, 06:30 AM
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#66
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
I've seen different arguments on buying resources multiple times; while I agree that it shouldn't be allowed to happen, the rules aren't perfectly clear. This being a thread on twinking, you always want to go with whatever isn't clear, twisted into the best possible interpretation.
The trick with Physmages was meant to get the highest possible Magic rating. Combine that with other tricks to get a lot of spellpoints, and you end up with a ton. |
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May 1 2004, 06:33 AM
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#67
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 19-March 03 From: Central IL Member No.: 4,278 |
physical mage, Quick Strike and Force 6 manabolt/ball Always first and can kill most things.
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May 1 2004, 04:29 PM
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#68
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 26-February 02 From: The Golden Orchards Member No.: 2,011 |
You can't buy Resources on Points more than once. For one real good reason. -5 points = 500 Nuyen. If you could buy multiple times, you'd end up with infinite cash and infinite buy points.
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May 2 2004, 02:35 AM
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#69
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
The way I twink is to visit dumpshock and find out what most people outlaw in their games. Then I find a game that doesn't outlaw it.
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May 2 2004, 03:09 AM
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#70
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
heh. All I do is make a post saying, "Hey, how's this guy look?", build a character, and let everyone else twink it for me. :)
(Edit): Speaking of which, thanks for all the ideas for Pierce guys! :D I mean, I'm pretty sure he's not very well twinked, per se, but he's pretty cool. |
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May 2 2004, 01:29 PM
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#71
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 160 Joined: 12-August 03 From: Sulphur, Louisiana Member No.: 5,418 |
Not counting the karma cost reduction (pre or post errata), Mnemonic Enhancers are pretty damn cool. For only 45,000¥ you can get +1 to all Knowledge skills, +3 to all Language and Memory checks, and the modifier for defaulting to Intelligence (for Knowledge skills) is only +3 instead of +4.. It's not bad if you're playing someone who needs to know a lot of stuff.. Good for a 'I'm-the-brains-of-this-outfit' type of character. I've currently got a face who is built around Mnemonic Enhancers 3.. I didn't even think about the karma reduction when I took it.. That was just icing on the cake as far as I was concerned. |
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May 3 2004, 08:13 AM
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#72
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Target Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 23-April 04 Member No.: 6,275 |
Let's not forget the Troll Physad with 10 Str, Alpha Aluminum Bone Lacing, and Killing Hands Deadly. Drop the SOB out of a plane and you get the range of a Barret as well as the damage code. :D
Hm. That's actually not that good - give me some time to come up with something better. |
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May 3 2004, 09:07 AM
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#73
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 120 Joined: 3-May 04 Member No.: 6,298 |
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.
A sorcerer with improved invisibility, stealth, 2 force 1 sustaining focuses, and a smartlink. Cast each of the spells at force 1, you'll get so many successes that you'd need an intelligence of 7 to have enough dice to resist, and you're undetectable to everything but astral perception. You walk around undetectable blowing people away, pretty much immune to counter-attack. An astrally percieving mage can cause you problems, but you'll have the time to deal with him because no one else can touch you. I had a character where I did this and used a tricked-out combat shotgun as a weapon (eliminating recoil). People died very fast. Cyber-samurai couldn't do anything, because I could walk right up to them and then pull the trigger. |
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May 3 2004, 09:44 AM
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#74
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 117 Joined: 29-April 04 Member No.: 6,291 |
As many tears as this twink caused the last GM I had, there's a very good solution to it. A couple, actually. One, just keep in mind that it's not hard for an NPC to do that, and if you don't like it, have a bounty hunter come after the Mage, knock all the other teammates unconscious, then pit the two against each other. Make sure it's implied that if the character's gonna twink, so's the GM. If that's a little hard knock, here are some others. Summoning spirits, given enough time, is fairly easy and straightforward. Elementals are a little harder, and cost a little more money, but any Mage with a week can have a small army of Force 6 and Force 8 elementals easily capable of taking out one Invisible mage from the astral. Or at least giving them a hard time. If reports keep coming in about an invisible Mage terrorizing the Shadowrun biz, then people are gonna wanna want magickal security, and other Shadowrunners might start to get a little jealous. Thirdly, don't active foci make it much, much easier to cast spells at a person from the Astral? I doubt the Mage is going to keep Astral Perception on because of a few heavy modifiers it puts on shooting and ranged combat, just have a patrolling, Astral Corp Sec Wagemage start tossing stuff down his/her gullet before they realize it. |
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May 3 2004, 10:05 AM
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#75
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 120 Joined: 3-May 04 Member No.: 6,298 |
Yeah, it works, but it means that the other characters bystanders to a fight between two twink characters.
Again, this basically requires someone to want this guy dead and plan around it.
I don't think it makes it easier to cast on him astrally. The problem he's going to have is that his focuses, being force 1, are going to get slammed and deactivated. Frankly, I think that's the best way to deal with him. What it came down to is, I made this character in a campaign and he was overly powerful, particularly against mundanes. Yeah, hired assassins could have been sent in to kill him, but we wanted a solution that wasn't just my character being destroyed. In particular, there's nothing conceptually wrong with wanting to be invisibile while fighting. The ways to deal with it mostly come down to just eliminating it as a useful option because characters which do it get removed from the game. What would be nice is a way to deal with it that didn't result in making the character useless. Our fix was the house rule that thermo could see invisible characters. It's still a sigfnificant bonus, and your cyber samurai is still going to have trouble hitting him (+4 cyber full darkness penalty), but at least there's a real fight without resorting to sending hit squads to take out this guy. Particularly when it's a little hard to justify the hit squads (how did anyone know he was invisible, they just found bodies filled with shotgun slugs; by definition, no one saw him). |
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