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> SR 5: What's next for the supplements?
Voran
post Jul 31 2013, 10:12 AM
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So, having moved to a new edition, what are the intended supplements for this new version?

Original stuff, or the "Yeah, take Arsenal and Augmentation and basically update the stats. For full price." and "Hm, we should probably do Runner Companion with Advanced Lifestyles again"? If there is going to be "Arsenal" and "augmentation" and related again, what is going to be different in them other than mechanics, than their SR4 stuff?

So far, from what I've seen through the SR5 'main book', its a good starting point if you've never played the setting. But at the same time, in comparison to the previous book, it seems to be missing the equivalent of a "History Lesson for the Reality Impaired". There's some fluff of the timeline, and I can see the benefit if you ARE a new player to the system entirely, it doesn't load you down with the weight of the 25 years (in-game) before it.

Will there be a section in the next 'unwired' equivalent book that explains why (in-setting) you went from Commlinks are the new Cyberdecks, to yeah, all the stuff commlinks did before...they can't do now, and you need cyberdecks that are basically...100x more expensive.

Is Clockwork finally going to get his ticket punched? Heh, will Dragons stop being such big Mary Sues? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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RHat
post Jul 31 2013, 10:26 AM
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Supposedly, Run Faster (the Runner's Companion equivalent) is first on the schedule, and the corebook at least references Data Trails, the Matrix book. The Extended Core would have to further include a Magic book, a 'ware book, a gear book, and ideally a rigger book.

And the whole reintroduction of decks has been explained, though I'm not sure if the explanation made the book - basically, the nature of the Matrix has changed, and the security is a lot more intensive. Dealing with that security requires a more powerful device. It's less about commlinks not doing what they used to, and more about what they're doing not being close to good enough anymore.
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Jaid
post Jul 31 2013, 03:41 PM
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the need for cyberdecks has actually been explained in far more detail than most other parts of history. which isn't to say it's got a lot devoted to it... the great ghost dance, for example, is something that gets mentioned once in a single sentence, with no context and no explanation what it is (heck, iirc they didn't even call it the *great* ghost dance).

but in any event, it's been explained if you read the core book. new matrix protocols were introduced specifically to make it so that a regular commlink wouldn't be able to hack.
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Larsine
post Jul 31 2013, 04:46 PM
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http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/products/upcoming-products/ mentions:
Splintered State (Adventure)
Stolen Souls (Deep Shadows)
Introductory Box Set
Shadowrun: Crossfire (A Deck Building Game)
Run And Gun (Core Rulebook)
Runner’s Toolkit, Fifth Edition (Box Set)

In addition they mention Data Trails (Decking rulebook) in the core rulebook, and Run Faster (Runner's Companion) has been mentioned somewhere.
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Sendaz
post Jul 31 2013, 05:02 PM
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Was sort of hoping to see the Sixth World Cookbook with recipes from around the world, including the CAS favourite Behemoth Gumbo (feeds 200!), but rumour has it has gone on the back burner for the time being. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
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Umidori
post Jul 31 2013, 05:32 PM
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Give me my beloved Metavarants, Infected, AIs, Free Spirits, Changelings, Drakes, Shapeshifters, and Non-Metahuman Sapients please!

Also, please make sure I can at least potentially make such characters Missions legal! And include varied enough Metegenetic Qualities that I can make a "T'skrang" style changeling without almost breaking the rules please!

~Umi
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Bigity
post Jul 31 2013, 07:19 PM
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No infected, AI, free spirit, or drake PCs please.

I can get behind pixies, lizardmen, and rock dudes though. But let's face it - not gonna happen.
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Sengir
post Jul 31 2013, 08:46 PM
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QUOTE (Umidori @ Jul 31 2013, 05:32 PM) *
Give me my beloved Metavarants, Infected, AIs, Free Spirits, Changelings, Drakes, Shapeshifters, and Non-Metahuman Sapients please!

Most important part of the RC equivalent will be BP and Karma generation.
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tete
post Jul 31 2013, 08:56 PM
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QUOTE (Larsine @ Jul 31 2013, 04:46 PM) *
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/products/upcoming-products/ mentions:
Splintered State (Adventure)
Stolen Souls (Deep Shadows)
Introductory Box Set
Shadowrun: Crossfire (A Deck Building Game)
Run And Gun (Core Rulebook)
Runner’s Toolkit, Fifth Edition (Box Set)

In addition they mention Data Trails (Decking rulebook) in the core rulebook, and Run Faster (Runner's Companion) has been mentioned somewhere.


Dear God why?!?! Specifically - Run And Gun (Core Rulebook) & Runner’s Toolkit, Fifth Edition (Box Set). These things are nice but what I want is Berlin given the Seattle 2072 treatment. It should be Core Book + Setting Book + Adventure right out the door so people can start their campaigns up, extra rules and options should trickle out later, if for no other reason to allow it to be playtested enough that the optional rules become fixes.

QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 31 2013, 08:46 PM) *
Most important part of the RC equivalent will be BP and Karma generation.


I'll concede this point for 4e players but you can release a ref doc and put it in a book later.
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Mäx
post Jul 31 2013, 09:08 PM
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Nah, we need the other core books as fast as possible.
Currently there are quite a limited amount of options available and for example drone riggers are practically unplayable without modding rules.
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RHat
post Jul 31 2013, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (Bigity @ Jul 31 2013, 01:19 PM) *
No infected, AI, free spirit, or drake PCs please.


Hey, if you don't want it in your games, don't allow it - but that doesn't mean it should be barred from people that DO just because you don't like it.
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Patrick Goodman
post Jul 31 2013, 09:24 PM
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We're actually having a long talk about Berlin at the moment. I'm not sure where it stands since I personally don't much care, but it is being talked about.
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Bigity
post Jul 31 2013, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE (RHat @ Jul 31 2013, 04:23 PM) *
Hey, if you don't want it in your games, don't allow it - but that doesn't mean it should be barred from people that DO just because you don't like it.


To that I'd say just because you like it doesn't mean it should be included. I'd rather they work on stuff missing at this point. Then worry about expanded character options.

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RHat
post Jul 31 2013, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (Bigity @ Jul 31 2013, 03:37 PM) *
To that I'd say just because you like it doesn't mean it should be included. I'd rather they work on stuff missing at this point. Then worry about expanded character options.


Which is essentially an argument that they should delay the Companion in general. But I'm rather curious as to what your definition of "stuff missing" is - because the expanded character options would qualify as "missing".
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Bigity
post Jul 31 2013, 09:48 PM
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Errata for the core book. Autosofts, etc.


Then stuff to spend karma on outside of skills (granted, this is really only for awakened folks).

Then stuff to spend money on - more cyber, biotech, toys.

Then maybe the fringe races/SURGE/alternate stuff like infected, shapeshifters etc.
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RHat
post Jul 31 2013, 09:51 PM
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So... Basically, errata (including accidental omissions) and the extended core less one set of elements you don't much like?
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tete
post Jul 31 2013, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (Mäx @ Jul 31 2013, 09:08 PM) *
Currently there are quite a limited amount of options available and for example drone riggers are practically unplayable without modding rules.


Well Riggers are traditionally screwed like that... Ok id say sure let the riggers have their toys first but i don't need a cyberware, magic, gun, or matrix book out of the gate.
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Umidori
post Jul 31 2013, 10:42 PM
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Ordinary gear like guns, armor, mods for each, and general "Runner Toys" would be very low priority for me.

Slightly less low priority would be advanced gear and rules for already operable archetypes - new magic for mages, powers for adepts, martial arts for whoever, "new" cyberware for sammies (Move-By-Wire and the like), et cetera.

Above that I'd put Setting or Campaign materials, because while they're nice, they're definitely not essential in a game that already requires so much imagination and invention to play.

High priority would go to gear and rules for currently underserved archetypes, like Rigger goodies and possibly expanded Hacking, Decking, and Technomancy.

~Umi
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Voran
post Jul 31 2013, 11:09 PM
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Yeah honestly for me, especially since the in game calendar is only what...a year or two...more than the previous edition, I'd be happier with a freebie-pdf or community post of "How to convert guns from Arsenal SR4 to SR5 mechanics" rather than an actual book that does that with essentially another 20 pages of 'new story' that they like to do between sections. Similiarly for Augmentation stuff, unless there is some quantum leap of new stuff, tho with cyber/bio/genetic engineering and nanites, I dunno what that it could be, I'd prefer to have a forum posting on how to rejigger those things into SR5 mechanics.

Maybe ruleset to create RIFTS setting type Juicers or something? That'd be fun. But I already see that as a form of Nanite tech + Chems.

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RHat
post Jul 31 2013, 11:20 PM
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QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 31 2013, 05:09 PM) *
Yeah honestly for me, especially since the in game calendar is only what...a year or two...more than the previous edition, I'd be happier with a freebie-pdf or community post of "How to convert guns from Arsenal SR4 to SR5 mechanics" rather than an actual book that does that with essentially another 20 pages of 'new story' that they like to do between sections. Similiarly for Augmentation stuff, unless there is some quantum leap of new stuff, tho with cyber/bio/genetic engineering and nanites, I dunno what that it could be, I'd prefer to have a forum posting on how to rejigger those things into SR5 mechanics.

Maybe ruleset to create RIFTS setting type Juicers or something? That'd be fun. But I already see that as a form of Nanite tech + Chems.


Nanites aren't gonna be a thing anymore, from what the community has been able to gather - and that's gonna have a serious impact on the Augmentation equivalent book, because that means no more nanosurgery.
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Not of this Worl...
post Aug 1 2013, 12:56 AM
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QUOTE (RHat @ Jul 31 2013, 02:23 PM) *
Hey, if you don't want it in your games, don't allow it - but that doesn't mean it should be barred from people that DO just because you don't like it.


To which I respond, if you want it IN your game. Homerule it. Not every "Fringe" thing needs a big section of rules and to take up game space. Back in my SR1 days there was another group where they all played Vampires even though their were no rules to make characters that way.

Original Shadowrun was a lot about humanity, which was why you weren't generally allowed to play characters that didn't have the base template of having been human (AIs, Spirits, Pixies, etc) or characters that had gone so far that humanity was no prey for them (Infected). In my own games the infected are strictly villains and your PC becoming ones means they are essentially rabid and turn into a NPC character. Every time there is a big section of rules I have to tell my players to ignore (any rules for any reason) it annoys both me the GM and the players. I really think these kinds of options are better off as an ebook option than in a core book.
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Voran
post Aug 1 2013, 01:20 AM
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Huh, on one hand I'm not fond of retcon (see Cyberdecks) but on the other hand, Nanite stuff WAS pretty in-game annoying that I can understand why they'd want to get rid of it. It was one of those things that lacked a nonspecific or multi-layered defense that the only real way to fight nanostuff was investing in nanostuff yourself.
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Shortstraw
post Aug 1 2013, 02:55 AM
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The game is unbearable without shifters.
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RHat
post Aug 1 2013, 03:33 AM
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QUOTE (Not of this World @ Jul 31 2013, 06:56 PM) *
To which I respond, if you want it IN your game. Homerule it. Not every "Fringe" thing needs a big section of rules and to take up game space. Back in my SR1 days there was another group where they all played Vampires even though their were no rules to make characters that way.

Original Shadowrun was a lot about humanity, which was why you weren't generally allowed to play characters that didn't have the base template of having been human (AIs, Spirits, Pixies, etc) or characters that had gone so far that humanity was no prey for them (Infected). In my own games the infected are strictly villains and your PC becoming ones means they are essentially rabid and turn into a NPC character. Every time there is a big section of rules I have to tell my players to ignore (any rules for any reason) it annoys both me the GM and the players. I really think these kinds of options are better off as an ebook option than in a core book.


Difference is, now that it's been in you're asking for it to be removed. And the Companion book is all about expanding options - Runner's Companion would be pretty short without the alternative concepts section.

And, from another angle - having those options in there means that it will sell more.

QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 31 2013, 07:20 PM) *
Huh, on one hand I'm not fond of retcon (see Cyberdecks) but on the other hand, Nanite stuff WAS pretty in-game annoying that I can understand why they'd want to get rid of it. It was one of those things that lacked a nonspecific or multi-layered defense that the only real way to fight nanostuff was investing in nanostuff yourself.


Cyberdecks do not involve a retcon. There are cogent, in-world reasons for their return.
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Not of this Worl...
post Aug 1 2013, 05:07 AM
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QUOTE (RHat @ Jul 31 2013, 07:33 PM) *
Difference is, now that it's been in you're asking for it to be removed.


I'm not asking for them to be in-game, I'm just saying that should stay in the limelight. It is hardly the hardcore reboot that 4th edition was in general.

Shadowrun just doesn't work well as the game where everybody is a vampire (or werewolf, ghost, mummy, faerie, etc) slowly losing their humanity. That game has been done just fine by someone else (and I enjoy some of those games for what they are), Shadowrun should be about Shadowrunners and their universe (even when playing a DocWagon campaign it is in the universe where other people go on Shadowruns).
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