Spells with Range: Touch, Not having a lot of luck with the search function. Options

[TheOneRonin]

I've been rooting around the different SR5 threads, but have not yet found any answers to the questions I have about Touch Range spells.

SR5, pg 282 has this to say:

"Some spells require you to Touch (T) the target—if the target is unwilling, you’ll need to make an unarmed attack against the target."

So here are my questions:

1.) Can you make the unarmed touch attack as part of the same complex action you use to cast the spell?

2.) If not, how many combat turns do you have before the spell dissipates?

3.) In either case, what happens if you miss with the touch attack? Can you make another on your next action phase, or is the spell just gone?

If these answers are somewhere in the SR5 book, I haven't found them yet. A simple page number would help if you guys and girls know where the answer lies.

Thanks in advance.

[SpellBinder]

My understanding, and taking a bit from SR4a as well for this:

1.) Yes; think of the spell going off the instant you actually touched your target; this was detailed in SR4a, but seems to have been a bit overlooked for SR5 (like many things); page 282 on the bit about Touch spells does seem to suggest that you can make an Unarmed Attack as part of casting a touch spell, but doesn't outright say that's how it is

2.) None; Instant spells go off right away; page 283 under Duration and the brief bit about Instant spells

3.) Spell fails, target takes no damage, and you resist Drain as usual; you can repeat this again your next action phase, but you'll also have to recast the spell

[Shinobi Killfist]

You'd think that issues that needed the faq to clarify in 4e would be you know clarified in 5e instead of a cut and paste of 4es rules.

[Umidori]

It's actually not a straight cut and paste. A lot of the wording is the same, but then there have been edits in key places which have actually (accidentally I can only hope) made things unclear again.

~Umi

[Giabralter]

My understanding, and taking a bit from SR4a as well for this:

1.) Yes; think of the spell going off the instant you actually touched your target; this was detailed in SR4a, but seems to have been a bit overlooked for SR5 (like many things); page 282 on the bit about Touch spells does seem to suggest that you can make an Unarmed Attack as part of casting a touch spell, but doesn't outright say that's how it is

2.) None; Instant spells go off right away; page 283 under Duration and the brief bit about Instant spells

3.) Spell fails, target takes no damage, and you resist Drain as usual; you can repeat this again your next action phase, but you'll also have to recast the spell

Add to #1 p.173 Grazing hit. That should have been the reference page for touch attack.

On a side note, for indirect spells, if you are successful in a touch attack, they don't make an additional "dodge" for the spell. this should be in the FAQ.

[TheOneRonin]

My understanding, and taking a bit from SR4a as well for this:

1.) Yes; think of the spell going off the instant you actually touched your target; this was detailed in SR4a, but seems to have been a bit overlooked for SR5 (like many things); page 282 on the bit about Touch spells does seem to suggest that you can make an Unarmed Attack as part of casting a touch spell, but doesn't outright say that's how it is

So basically you are making a trade...have to essentially roll twice to hit (once for Spellcasting+Magic and once for Unarmed+Agility+2 [Touch Attack]), and in return, you either get 3 fewer points of drain to resist, or you can cast the spell at 3 points more Force for the same drain.

Most full mages will probably expect to soak 3 drain dmg, so you can more easily max out the force of the spell. But still...F9 Deathtouch vs. F6 Manabolt...that's a big risk for only 3 more points of damage, and will be very risky if your mage doesn't have a significant investment in Agility and Unarmed combat.

Based off the stats you see for the GRUNTS, your's going to need at minimum 9 dice in your DP (Unarmed 4 + AGI 3 +2 for Touch would do it) to be able to touch Prof 0-1 grunts.

The spell would be much more useful if you could cast it and hold the charge for a handful of rounds before releasing it. If nothing else, it would prevent you from wasting the spell if you failed to touch your opponent.

Maybe just chalk it up to it really being meant for Mystic Adepts and not Full Mages.

[Voran]

Must...resist....lay on hands...and touching self....joke.....must.....resist...

[Sendaz]

Think of the poor police having to file those reports:

Alright, so you were assaulted at the corner of Kings and Main?

Yes.

And they punched you where?

Well, she touched me.

She?

Yes sir

Touched you?

Um, Yes. She touched me and I lost consciousness. (KnockOut touch Spell)

*biting his lip* And where did she touch you?

*blushing* Well you see......

[Voran]

Show me on the doll where the bad mage touched you?