Skillwire Economy, Does it still hold up? Options

[FuelDrop]

Back in the forth edition book unwired, there is a section that talks about how skillsofts and skillwires drastically altered the landscape of skilled labour by suddenly making skilled workers cheap and easy to attain, and how this led to a dramatic social upheaval.

How have the drastically increased costs of skillwires in 5th edition changed things?

[GloriousRuse]

A boon to robotics and automation most likely.

Of course, another question is:

If old wires were cheap cause they had trace nano in them, did the workforce melt down as well?

[Wakshaani]

A boon to robotics and automation most likely.

Of course, another question is:

If old wires were cheap cause they had trace nano in them, did the workforce melt down as well?

I don't think it hammered old SKillwires so much as disrupted the manufacture of new ones.

That said, if it cascades through Horizon, those poor guys are *boned*. What percentage of their workforce is Skillwired again?

[Eratosthenes]

Where is the fluff about nanotech being dead? I keep seeing it referenced, but I couldn't find anything in the sourcebook describing what happened. Or is it just that there's no nanotech in the sourcebook (likely to be in a supplement)?

[Wakshaani]

STorm Front will bring you the nitty-gritty.

[Eratosthenes]

STorm Front will bring you the nitty-gritty.

Ah! Thank you!

[White Buffalo]

Back in the forth edition book unwired, there is a section that talks about how skillsofts and skillwires drastically altered the landscape of skilled labour by suddenly making skilled workers cheap and easy to attain, and how this led to a dramatic social upheaval.

I felt most of last edition that they missed an opurtunity with that one. SR4A and reset anything that might have been done by adjusting the costs but the "social upheaval" mentioned in Unwired was one of the best examples of dystopian wage slavery published in the last 10 years.

[Blastula]

Implanting low grade wires is still probably cheaper than training employees in certain job fields. Worker gets geeked due to a workplace accident, there's a chance the wires can still be salvaged and implanted into another drone.

It probably wouldn't be as widespread as it had been prior to SR5, but as long as it remained a cost effective alternative to full scale training and orientation programs, it'll have a place in the corporate world.

[Wakshaani]

I felt most of last edition that they missed an opurtunity with that one. SR4A and reset anything that might have been done by adjusting the costs but the "social upheaval" mentioned in Unwired was one of the best examples of dystopian wage slavery published in the last 10 years.

Most writers aren't sociologists. Culture's my baby and, believe me, I want to explore certain areas along those lines. Unfortunately, five thousand words on the education system of 2075 North America isn't going to be useful for most people. Oh, it'll be *neat*, and those people like me will chew the Hell out of it, but most people would go "I don't really care where my dude went to school, I want to ride a motorcycle off a building, shoot a helicopter, and land on a zombie to wail on my guitar while the chopper explodes behind me in slow-mo."

And that's totally fine!

But it means I have to find different angles to bring that kind of thing to something vaguely akin to print.

(PS, "brake" in your sig should be "break")

[Flaser]

Most writers aren't sociologists. Culture's my baby and, believe me, I want to explore certain areas along those lines. Unfortunately, five thousand words on the education system of 2075 North America isn't going to be useful for most people. Oh, it'll be *neat*, and those people like me will chew the Hell out of it, but most people would go "I don't really care where my dude went to school, I want to ride a motorcycle off a building, shoot a helicopter, and land on a zombie to wail on my guitar while the chopper explodes behind me in slow-mo."

And that's totally fine!

But it means I have to find different angles to bring that kind of thing to something vaguely akin to print.

(PS, "brake" in your sig should be "break")

Actually I'm a bit like you, as the hideously broken education system could leave all sorts of nasty marks on the person... including glaring gaps in their knowledge and their look on the world. While not directly related to the action-movie parts of SR, in social situations it could bring a strong flavor to everything.

[Slide]

I could see massive backlash from the unions, their political and organized crime partners. Maybe they finally got corps/government to agree to up the price on skill wires making the skilled laborer still competitive in the job market. After moving to NJ I've gotten to see how persistent the unions can be. Hell I could even see them trying to get laws passed to make it harder to higher a skill wired laborer.

[Draco18s]

Possibly relevant TED talk

[Flaser]

I could see massive backlash from the unions, their political and organized crime partners. Maybe they finally got corps/government to agree to up the price on skill wires making the skilled laborer still competitive in the job market. After moving to NJ I've gotten to see how persistent the unions can be. Hell I could even see them trying to get laws passed to make it harder to higher a skill wired laborer.

Unions in Shadowrun? Maybe in the government.

Most AAA corps probably treat unions are the same way as Jihadist today, they can write whatever laws they want. Heck, incitement against the market (anything with a hint of Left Wing ideology) is probably a standard accusation to paint someone in a bad light.

[Slide]

well i guess extra territoriality does mess that up a bit.

[Wakshaani]

Yeah, Unions don't exist on corporate property. Governments have to deal with them to some degree, however. I know teh UCAS has several, the CAS, not so much. Aztlan is probably worse than the CAS in that regard, while the NAN.... huh. I'm not sure how union-friendly the NAN are. That's a good question, really.

[Voran]

If we look at Jackpoint, various comments throughout the sourcebooks, we'll see that general education is potentially worse than what we think is bad NOW. An enhanced version of "We'll teach them what we want, not what is necessarily true"

So you can imagine following the split the UCAS teaches different history than CAS. The Hawaiian Kingdom probably changed their education from the 'haole version'. Corps definitely change stuff, supporting the "Love us. Obey us." aspect of raising drones.

To a 2070s type, the early 2000s are probably as well known as the general person can describe (today) what the world was like during WWI era.

I figure you can take the worst stereotypes about cults/scientology/etc and figure that's the baseline Corps use to indoctrinate their people. And that's even before stuff like Horizon's "its kinda like a BTL' network that makes all their linked employees kinda drugged.

[Flaser]

Yeah, Unions don't exist on corporate property. Governments have to deal with them to some degree, however. I know teh UCAS has several, the CAS, not so much. Aztlan is probably worse than the CAS in that regard, while the NAN.... huh. I'm not sure how union-friendly the NAN are. That's a good question, really.

Probably not that much, since Unions have traditional ties to the International Worker's Movement and Communism in general. Both of these candidly spoke in favor of class identity and international co-operation vs. any national interest or national identity. Being founded on specific *ethic* and *religious* identities, NAN probably doesn't like traditional Unions much, so how much a specific union is accepted/harassed would depend on how much they ascribe and subject themselves to the Tribal Identity of their are vs. traditional, international left wing ideologies.

The two are not mutually exclusive though, look at North Korea and you'll see a classical hard-line Bolshevik State that has fully immersed itself in the mythos of a national identity and even digested classical Confucian mores. There are (sorta) 'good' examples too, like (before the clusterfuck of the Balkan wars) Jugoslavia that went against Soviet pressure and built its own kind of socialism instead yet another Stalinist clusterfuck... or if you want *democratic* left wing movements that are nationalist too, all the anti-colonial socialists of Latin America are good candidates, as these groups actually pushed for policies in line with the will of populace.

[CanRay]

Unions in Shadowrun? Maybe in the government.

One of the rules of the Corporate Court is that Unions are verboten, bad for business, and should be crushed wherever they can be.

[Nath]

One of the rules of the Corporate Court is that Unions are verboten, bad for business, and should be crushed wherever they can be.

A source?

The only place I remember unions have been mentioned was the Ute chapter in Shadows of North America, and it didn't appear to be an issue at hands with corporations.

[BlackJaw]

Back in the forth edition book unwired, there is a section that talks about how skillsofts and skillwires drastically altered the landscape of skilled labour by suddenly making skilled workers cheap and easy to attain, and how this led to a dramatic social upheaval.

How have the drastically increased costs of skillwires in 5th edition changed things?

I'm assuming that most Corporate Drones are only getting Skilljack systems under 5th Edition rules. Most jobs probably only require access to Profession and/or Academic Skillsofts to fulfill their corporate roles. Probably only at rating 3 (competent) to 5 (skilled) too. The trade off for the Human Resource department responsible for classifying young corporate citizens emerging from the "education system" is to compare the base talents (IE: probable future contributions) of the individual vs the cost of a proper higher or technical education. Average to above average citizens are likely best chipped, as the cost of doing so is probably comparable to a proper eduction for their bet-fit roles, but carries the advantages of being faster, easier to "re-traing," easier to retain internal corporate practices (as the employee knows little if their skillsoft is removed) and the investment can be repossessed, to some extent, should the employee find themselves unable to pay their loans related to implanting. Student loans, on the other hand, can not be repossessed, and it takes another investment of time and money to transfer the employee to new fields. If you're a young corporate citizen in school, unless you can show yourself as being more valuable in a roll requiring initiative, creativity, and/or development, (or magic obviously) you're likely to be get chipped.

This ethos carries over into even some of the more education heavy fields too. Lab techs, doctors, etc. These skills (Chemistry, Biotech, Medicine, etc) require use of activesofts. The cost for implanting a rating 4 to 5 skilljack and skillwire, while twice that of he average drone, is still likely a better investment of corporate dollars than getting a masters degree, PHD, or MD. The citizens approved for such implants, however, are likely in the above average to talented category of citizens.

I figure only in the case of the exceptional individuals is it more valuable to give a proper education. These people are those destined for positions where creativity and problem solving are key aspect of their future work. The mid to upper managers that will need to make tough decisions, the designers of new systems or processes, and those working the cutting edge. Also, anyone mystically inclined.

The other extreme is also present: those below average citizens destined for jobs so menial it's more cost effective to give them basic training than it is to chip them. Security guards and the rare none-drone janitors come to mind.

That means your average corp research lab the players are breaking into is likely to be staffed by a handful of exceptional individuals that are unchipped, like the head scientists and their younger "interns" or residents learning from them, some upper Managerial, HR, Security (Host-Spider, security mage, high threat response units), and PR types. Most of the rest of the staff would be chipped lab techs (with skillwires), admins (skilljacks only), etc. Finally there are the lowest wrung employees that haven't been replaced with automation, and are unchipped because it's still cheaper to just train them the old fashioned way, that probably means the basic daily security guards.

Or that's at least how I look at it. I like the dystopian edge of a largely chipped workforce, because as other posters have noted, it really plays up the "drone" aspect. This was actually somewhat easier in 4th edition because Knowsofts (IE: Profession and Academic Skills) only required a DNI to work, IE: The common drone's implanted commlink. Under 5th Edition rules, a Skilljack is once again required, which is substantially more expensive than a mid-level commlink, but still not more expensive than education. More interestingly though, this makes the act, at least in my games, of being made a full corporate drone more invasive. They are actively installing an investment of hardware into your brain that will probably leave you indebted to them for decades and unlike student loans: They can take it back if you don't make your payments.

I do like that research labs, a frequent target or setting for shadowrun missions, are more likely to have skilljacked and skillwired lab techs. I think it was in 4th Ed Unwired that talks about a run that went bad when the lab techs in the facility were converted into mid level soldiers though implanted combat skillsofts sent to them by the building's spider.

This post has been edited by BlackJaw: Aug 12 2013, 09:00 PM

[Voran]

On the other hand, the 'problem' is with skillwires you get a worker that has a static skill level and doesn't develop tacit/experiential knowledge on their own. So sure you can hire a rating 3 skillwire guy, but his performance will be limited to how extensive the skillchips are. Good for stability I suppose, not that great for innovation/learning new tasks within the role/etc.

[BlackJaw]

On the other hand, the 'problem' is with skillwires you get a worker that has a static skill level and doesn't develop tacit/experiential knowledge on their own. So sure you can hire a rating 3 skillwire guy, but his performance will be limited to how extensive the skillchips are. Good for stability I suppose, not that great for innovation/learning new tasks within the role/etc.

Which is why you evaluate your people and give the "best and brightest" real education and positions groomed for growth, especially in fields or positions with possible promotion tracks or a need for creative problem solving/development. That's still only a fraction of your work force, and the rest really are "drones," at least that's how I view the dystopian mega-corp model.

[Jaid]

and then suddenly it becomes an incredibly profitable venture to break into low security housing for these corp drones and rake in the cash, because some chump with skillwires is packing a couple hundred thousand nuyen in augmentations, and they're everywhere.

also, i'm curious what makes you believe it costs more to train someone to be a lab technician than it takes to use skillwires. again, rating 4 (standard professional rating in SR5) has a market value of 160,000 nuyen. i bet you can do some pretty damned good educating for that kind of money per head, especially if you don't really care about innovation or creativity. and by the time you'd need to actually replace the person (say, 45 years, that being around standard retirement age today if you start at ~20 years old), those rating 4 skillwires probably no longer have any value anyways. oh, sure, if the person dies, you could recover skillwires, but really... are you suggesting that actual *deaths* are that common in the workplace?

as far as indebtedness, there isn't really a functional difference between a 20,000 nuyen debt that you can't pay off realistically ever and a 160,000 nuyen debt that you can't pay off realistically ever. sure, you've got the threat of repossessing the person's 'ware (and leaving them unemployable), but you also guarantee they will never improve, and more importantly, if they ever leave (without your permission, obviously), they've got 160k nuyen worth of 'ware stuck in them.

[BlackJaw]

Well just for a Bachelors: Private Four-Year Not-For-Profit College: National Average: $85,296 per year.

I know modern American dollars and 2075 NuYen isn't the same thing, but considering something like 75% of the applicable workforce only needs a rating 3 Skilljack (60,000 NuYen for new) and only smaller subset of above average individuals need the more expensive Skillwire system too (rating 4 skilljack and skillwire is 160,000 NuYen for new) and those are the corp equivalent of middle class: chipped lab techs and basic doctors living a decent life but unlikely to have much in the way of promotion prospects. Looking at modern averages, for medical school: "In 2010, the median debt at graduation was $150,000 at public institutions, $180,000 at private, and $160,000 combined."

If it's $160,000 for a medical education taking more than 6 years, or $160,000 for an implanted skilljack 4 and skill wire 4, taking a few months at worst... with various extras like re-programing, or cutting the wires out after 5 years when the person defaults on their debt... well why would you as an HR manager direct people towards education instead of wires?

So yes, I think my numbers aren't so crazy for 2070s, but as to why people don't go door to door killing corp employees and carefully cutting out their augmentations for black market sales... well maybe because that's the kind of thing corps hunt you down and do terrible things to you for. Especially because they notice all those wireless devices going often line one after another inside their extra-territoriality subdivisions where they have plenty of security forces?

Also, this is for average (skilljack rating 3) to Competent (rating 5) employees. The 40% of the population that is lower average or worse is getting very little if anything, and those are the ones living in low-class high density housing only somewhat above SINless. Essentially the jobs that in modern terms don't have college degrees. The upper 20% (?) of the population isn't wired, because they are worth educating for the advantages of real knowledge/initiative instead of chipped skills. That's leaves just the middle section of the population, what is more or less the middle class in modern terms, that chipping is the more economical option for.

Then again, I'm by no means an expert, so I may very well be way off on these things. I think it at least makes an interesting dystopian megacorp setting.

[Wakshaani]

On the other hand, the 'problem' is with skillwires you get a worker that has a static skill level and doesn't develop tacit/experiential knowledge on their own. So sure you can hire a rating 3 skillwire guy, but his performance will be limited to how extensive the skillchips are. Good for stability I suppose, not that great for innovation/learning new tasks within the role/etc.

Of course, this assumes that you want them to get better. If they do the job enough, but never improve, then you don't have to worry about giving them performance bonuses or yearly increases in pay.

Know what you also might see, now that the cost of Skillwires has gone up?

Ever hear of Skill Hardwires?