[X] My Assistant

[Wakshaani]

Wow, I'm gonna have to go digging in the boxes of old books for that one. Short version, what is it?

Imagine skillwires that had only a single skill implanted in them that couldn't be changed. They'd essentially weld wires to the outside of your bod (ow!), program them for, say, "Assemble Ford Americar 3", and send you on your way. *vastly* cheaper than traditional skillwires, but they fell by the wayside long before 3rd edition came around. Might not be a bad time for a return.

[BigGreenSquid]

Imagine skillwires that had only a single skill implanted in them that couldn't be changed. They'd essentially weld wires to the outside of your bod (ow!), program them for, say, "Assemble Ford Americar 3", and send you on your way. *vastly* cheaper than traditional skillwires, but they fell by the wayside long before 3rd edition came around. Might not be a bad time for a return.

Two questions,

1. Was there an essence cost? I am guessing yes, but that would just be a guess.
2. Is it possible to reprogram the wires... Ford is completely re-tooling the Americar.

As a business model, the 5e pricing is ridiculous. Is there and Dev explanation/rational to these changes?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

As a business model, the 5e pricing is ridiculous. Is there and Dev explanation/rational to these changes?

SR3 Nostalgia? Seems to work for everything else. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Tzeentch]

Ok. Here's basically how they would look in SR5 using the SR2 costs.

Skill Hardwires: A Skill Hardware can replicate any Active skill (see SR5, p. 128). Each Skill Hardwire is good for one skill, and can not be altered, upgraded, or modified. Skill specializations are not permitted. They do not require a skilljack (SR5, p. 452) to function.

BODYWARE
Devices Essence Capacity Availability Cost
Skill Hardwire (Rating 1-10)
Rating 1-4 Rating x 0.2 - 6 Rating x 5,000
Rating 5-8 Rating x 0.25 - 12 Rating x 50,000
Rating 9-10 Rating x 0.3 - 12 Rating x 500,000


(Those are the SR2 stats. No, I don't think they are particularly viable at the high-end and probably need to be rejiggered.)

[Wakshaani]

Two questions,

1. Was there an essence cost? I am guessing yes, but that would just be a guess.
2. Is it possible to reprogram the wires... Ford is completely re-tooling the Americar.

As a business model, the 5e pricing is ridiculous. Is there and Dev explanation/rational to these changes?

1) Yes, but it was low. IIRC, 0.1 X rating.
2) Nope. One skill only. Need a new one, you could rip off the old ones and install a new one into the "Essence hole", but the one added only does the one thing, ever. They were dead-end tech, but for what they did, they were great.

[BigGreenSquid]

A little while back the guy who was GMing our game got sick and wasn't going to be able to play, so I volunteered to run on very short notice. Since I am the only one in our group who played SR3, I went and grabbed a mission from season 1 (Demolition Run), raped it for ideas and ported to SR4A.

One thing about it made it work better SR4 than it ever did in SR3, skillwires. Since it was a small facility, the maintenance workers also doubled as the security guards. Rather than the corp spending a bunch of money on a trained workforce, they get a group of young guys out of the barons with no marketable skills (the only skill they actually had was the Athletics Group at 3). Slap some skill wires and datajack on 'em (which are leased to the new employee and will come out of their pay of course) and put them in ***really nice*** (see below) company housing, and a company job where they can do different things throughout their shift and you have a set of loyal/grateful wage-slaves. Moreover, should they decide to leave your employ, they know nothing more of how you run your operation than when they first came to work. Additionally, you recover your skillwires and datajack as they leave your employ and implant them into any one of the hordes of SINless who would love to have that job.

As they go throughout their shift, they load up the appropriate active soft (chemistry, computer, hardware or Industrial Mechanic) for the task at hand, combined with the applicable knowsoft (Biotech Background, Electronics Background and DocWagon Operational Procedures). From the company perspective, you never have a need to brief your employees on safety procedures or changes in company protocol, update the knowsoft, push it out to your facilities, and your employees have been 100% covered. Since your a corp, you don't have to pay for individual copies of these skillsofts, make them all server side software to cover your entire workforce. When it is time for your employees to take over the security detail, they load up their security & weapon skillsofts and you have a veteran workforce for dirt cheap. Should the facility be attacked, your maintenance workers can very quickly become skilled veteran fighters.

Finally, corporate housing. You take a large general steel building (or the SR equivalent), slap a nice looking faux brick facade on the outside with fake windows, and a few shrubs and a nice drive through portico for dropping off your employees. Immediately inside is a very nice looking lobby with a series of what look like private phone rooms on the sides. Your employee comes home, goes into one of the rooms, sits down in a very comfortable chair and goes full VR to be “taken to his room.” For the next 15 hours or so (give or take time to sleep) your employee has a very wonderful VR experience complete with his own lavish pen-house suite. In the world of meat, your employee is link locked into his VR environment until it is time for his next shift. His body is moved to a small cubical and placed into a harness with his appendages connected to cables (think bowflex), a biomonitor, feeding/drinking tube and an external catheter are hooked up by a drone. At this point the movement inhibitor is disabled so his body can flail around. The resistance on the cables are adjusted by the biomonitor so your employee gets a good workout. The biomonitor also provides a balanced diet (think of the mush in the first Matrix movie, it may taste horrible, but your employee will never know that, he's eating awesome VR steak) and proper hydration. As it is close to your employee's work shift, a hygiene drone cleans him up, puts him in a clean uniform, and deposits him into the private room he started in, ready to go back to work.

Now you have a maintenance/fighting force that is in good health and excellent physical condition, all at a cost lower than a low lifestyle. Moreover, your employee thinks he has things great and can blow the remainder of his check on virtual things that cost you next to nothing.

[Backgammon]

I don't think I could have painted a better picture of the Wired Workforce.

Except, this scenario is comparatively rosy if you go back to the 1980s mentality. Once upon a time, which most younger players may not ever have heard of, it's was an Employer's market. The employer could afford to treat you like shit, because if you didn't like it, you could quit. You'd never find another job, and there's 10 guys that want your job.

Cyberpunk was born in that model. Nowadays you have Google has a model, which goes out of its way to let employee reach their top-level Maslow's pyramid. That's not the environment cyberpunk came from, and sometimes I think that's one of the reason it's so hard to get the new generation to really understand the idea of the corporate yoke.

In your scenario, the corporations make an effort, easy as it may be, to provide a healthy and emotionally satisfying enviroment. They really don't have to. They could make the employees go back to those little booths, but no VR. Don't like it? Fuck off. Ten guys are waiting for your job.

Anyway, both visions are two side of the same coin IMO. What's better: the gilded cage, or the iron cage? Both are cages.

[Wakshaani]

Horizon taps into these things, by the by, with a workforce that's almost entirely Skillwire'd up, capped off by the SIngularity system, which allows you to wirelessly access the database and pluck whatever skills are needed at the time. Due to this, people are interchangable cogs, providing intangibles, such as leadership, a winning personality, or a good head for angles, who can be shifted form one department or another as needed, secure in the knowledge that whatever skillset they need to execute the job will be waiting for them. Crunch time fo rthe new product line? Move the art department to the warehouse, download what they need, and you'll get that shipment out on time. Tax season? Everyone gets accounting software and goes to have a look ove rthe books to make sure that no one missed anything. Time for a team-building retreat? EVeryone gets loaded with athletics skills so they can go hiking, ziplining, play water polo, whatever. EVen international borders aren't an issue, since you can slot in whatever Linguasofts you need, letting you move a workforce from La to New Deli to Italy to Suadia Arabia without missing a beat.

Of course, the factories in China and Africa don't get that kind of high-end wire... that's what Skill Hardwires are for. Now, go assemble those new Commlinks!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I don't think I could have painted a better picture of the Wired Workforce.

Indeed... Well done BigGreenSquid. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[BigGreenSquid]

the corporations make an effort, easy as it may be, to provide a healthy and emotionally satisfying enviroment. They really don't have to. They could make the employees go back to those little booths, but no VR. Don't like it? Fuck off. Ten guys are waiting for your job.

I absolutely agree, and I don't think this is how every or even most corps would do it. It is all about ROI. I ask myself as a corp, if I can provide the perception of goodies, at a reduction in cost, or even at a very minimal cost and I get a great deal of secondary benefits, what will I do. In this case, where the maintenance folks are also the security, I thought it important to build in a sense of loyalty to the corp. There is a very good face in our group and I wanted to limit the bribery angle and his ability to flip the employees against the corp. Also as a general rule, disgruntled employees make lousy security guards. These employees rightly perceived that their ***luxury*** lifestyle was tied to the operation and security of the facility, and fought admirably for their corp, using their TacNet to great effect.

== Lifestyles ==
DocWagon Housing 1100¥/month
Comforts: Squatter
Entertainment: Middle
Necessities: Squatter
Neighborhood: Low
Security: Middle
Qualities: Corporate Owned [-3LP]

Doing it this way, costs almost half of what a Low lifestyle runs and there are several benefits.

[BigGreenSquid]

Once upon a time, which most younger players may not ever have heard of, it's was an Employer's market. The employer could afford to treat you like shit, because if you didn't like it, you could quit. You'd never find another job, and there's 10 guys that want your job.

Cyberpunk was born in that model.

I couldn't agree more and there absolutely is a place for the employers market in the spectrum of the wired workforce. One thing that I think most people miss though (and this is just my opinion) is the Corps are not evil for the sake of being evil. For the most part they are amoral, morality is not a column on the spreadsheet. They care for the bottom line. Public image and marketing also play into this equation. They might not give a rats ass about the SINless, but they sure want his ¥¥¥. Also, kinda like the Stuffer Shack, DocWagon has clinics in the sprawl and where the reality of their logo might be "DocWagon Cares for the Little Guy's Nuyen" if they can sell the "DocWagon Cares for the Little Guy" part to the great unwashed masses by grabbing a few of 'em up and letting them think they are high on the hog... It don't get any better than that.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I absolutely agree, and I don't think this is how every or even most corps would do it. It is all about ROI. I ask myself as a corp, if I can provide the perception of goodies, at a reduction in cost, or even at a very minimal cost and I get a great deal of secondary benefits, what will I do. In this case, where the maintenance folks are also the security, I thought it important to build in a sense of loyalty to the corp. There is a very good face in our group and I wanted to limit the bribery angle and his ability to flip the employees against the corp. Also as a general rule, disgruntled employees make lousy security guards. These employees rightly perceived that their ***luxury*** lifestyle was tied to the operation and security of the facility, and fought admirably for their corp, using their TacNet to great effect.

== Lifestyles ==
DocWagon Housing 1100¥/month
Comforts: Squatter
Entertainment: Middle
Necessities: Squatter
Neighborhood: Low
Security: Middle
Qualities: Corporate Owned [-3LP]

Doing it this way, costs almost half of what a Low lifestyle runs and there are several benefits.

Technically, what you described is a Part-time Full Immersion Lifestyle, which is 30,000 Nuyen/Month per person.

This lifestyle is for those who wish to live in a virtual environment all their waking lives. These people have literally left the meat behind and exist only as their digital personae. They trust the care of their bodies to medical professionals, who keep them on elective life support. Hydration, oxygenation, nutrition, excretion, muscle toning, and every other aspect of long-term care are handled by drones or trained personnel, all while the client interacts with the rest of the world via VR or by jumping into drones. A character with this lifestyle also enjoys the benefits of the Hospitalized lifestyle, but must still cover extra costs for treatment or surgery.

It will have a significant cost savings, to be sure, since it is only utilized for 15 hours/day (per your description), so I would reduce it to 20,000 Nuyen and then adjust for the Corporate Owned Negative Quality. This results in a Cost per Employee of 9,000 Nuyen. Pretty steep, if you ask me. You could reduce it a bit further by hot-swapping (and reducing to 12 Hours occupancy each. At that point, I would give a base of 15,000 Nuyen, -3 levels for Corporate Owned (8,000 Nuyen) and then increased by 10% for the extra occupant on the hot swap (8,800 Nuyen) and then split between the two Hot Swaps, resulting in 4,400 Nuyen per person/Month, billed to the Employee as part of his package, and recouping the expenditure by the Corp, and providing no real money to the Employee. At that point, all of his "concerns" are handled in VR, and the real world uniform/equipment is all provided by the Mother Corporation for his on-duty time. He gets a per diem for meals while "Awake" and he feels fulfilled.

Not too shabby, really. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Draco18s]

For the most part they are amoral, morality is not a column on the spreadsheet. They care for the bottom line. Public image and marketing also play into this equation.

So lets say you know this guy. He pinches pennies everywhere, always telling the cashier he doesn't have the 0.03 cents extra that it costs him to buy coffee. She just shrugs it off and lets him go. He always fills up his gas tank to $20 and then squeezes out a few extra drops, but not enough to make it $20.01
He always stays at work 4 minutes and 59 seconds after he should clock out and gets in early, clocking in 4 minutes 59 seconds early (that's 49 extra minutes worked a week! At $20 an hour that's $16.61!). Any time he borrows money he's a day late paying it back and never pays interest. Overpays his taxes and then charges the government money to get a rebate check, all because it gets him back that extra $1 in deductions and avoids late fees. He never donates to charity, he never helps old ladies cross the street, all because that would cost him money, money he doesn't want to spend (not that he doesn't have money, he just refuses to spend it).

You'd call him greedy and otherwise a total asshole wouldn't you?

Guess what.

His name is Target. Exon. Mobile. Microsoft. Apple. Toshiba. United Airlines. GlaxoSmithKline. Wells Fargo. JP Morgan Chase.

He is every corporation there ever was.

Corporations are not amoral, they're greed bastards that will do anything for money. And we, their stockholders, make sure of this, because God Damn it, if it takes $1 out of our stock dividend, we raise hell to the board of directors. Same is going to be true in 2070, only probably even more so, as the only people with stock are going to be the rich and powerful, as stock options will be out of reach for the SINless and likely too expensive for the wageslave.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Not to digress form the cyberpunk future discussion but game mechanic wise I like super expensive skill wires but dirt cheap programs, and hey we are 1/2 way there in 5e. I'd charge a flat fee for programs, it just works up to your skill wire rating or if I felt the need to have it by rating it would be something like 200 nuyen x rating. Programs can be pirated, make the cost reasonable for them so people don't feel the need to pirate them or if they do it does not change the balance of the game. Make the actual ware the balancing factor.

[Flaser]

So lets say you know this guy. He pinches pennies everywhere, always telling the cashier he doesn't have the 0.03 cents extra that it costs him to buy coffee. She just shrugs it off and lets him go. He always fills up his gas tank to $20 and then squeezes out a few extra drops, but not enough to make it $20.01
He always stays at work 4 minutes and 59 seconds after he should clock out and gets in early, clocking in 4 minutes 59 seconds early (that's 49 extra minutes worked a week! At $20 an hour that's $16.61!). Any time he borrows money he's a day late paying it back and never pays interest. Overpays his taxes and then charges the government money to get a rebate check, all because it gets him back that extra $1 in deductions and avoids late fees. He never donates to charity, he never helps old ladies cross the street, all because that would cost him money, money he doesn't want to spend (not that he doesn't have money, he just refuses to spend it).

You'd call him greedy and otherwise a total asshole wouldn't you?

Guess what.

His name is Target. Exon. Mobile. Microsoft. Apple. Toshiba. United Airlines. GlaxoSmithKline. Wells Fargo. JP Morgan Chase.

He is every corporation there ever was.

Corporations are not amoral, they're greed bastards that will do anything for money. And we, their stockholders, make sure of this, because God Damn it, if it takes $1 out of our stock dividend, we raise hell to the board of directors. Same is going to be true in 2070, only probably even more so, as the only people with stock are going to be the rich and powerful, as stock options will be out of reach for the SINless and likely too expensive for the wageslave.

...and we haven't even touched that toxic wasteland that is the ego of your average Ayn Rand worshiping CEO/manager.

The fucked up thing about these people is that they believe that they deserve every penny they squeeze out of the system by natural right and that doing so makes them a "good person".

You can't make any shit up as crazy as objectivists.

[BigGreenSquid]

You'd call him greedy and otherwise a total asshole wouldn't you?

This is exactly where I want the majority of corps in my game. If every corp acts like MCT, when I do hit them with the truly horrific it looses its punch. On the other end of the wired workforce, that they are just beginning to encounter are my wired BTL/Personafix + Data filter workforce that do run 20 hours a day and are willing to murder anyone who "unplugs" them. If everything is dark and evil, the real thing just doesn't sting that bad.

[BigGreenSquid]

You'd call him greedy and otherwise a total asshole wouldn't you?

This is exactly where I want the majority of corps in my game. If every corp acts like MCT, when I do hit them with the truly horrific it looses its punch. On the other end of the wired workforce, that they are just beginning to encounter are my wired BTL/Personafix + Data filter workforce that do run 20 hours a day and are willing to murder anyone who "unplugs" them. If everything is dark and evil, the real thing just doesn't sting that bad.

[Draco18s]

This is exactly where I want the majority of corps in my game.

Oh I didn't say it wasn't appropriate for a good Shadowrun game. I completely agree.

I was just saying that they're not amoral ("greed" is a deadly sin, no?)

[BigGreenSquid]

Oh I didn't say it wasn't appropriate for a good Shadowrun game. I completely agree.

I was just saying that they're not amoral ("greed" is a deadly sin, no?)

If you are going the theological route (which by requisite, any discussion of morality in the end requires theology), yes they are, for fall have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Yet by secular standards, for most people there isn't any obligation to help... anyone. Sure, a cop or medic may under certain circumstances have some obligation, but they are the exception, not the rule.

As for the skillwire economy, as I see it 5e has rendered it untenable. A drone workforce is now a better option and as for any obsolete piece of corporate property, the once useful wired workforce still has organs which have value once re-purposed.

[FuelDrop]

If you are going the theological route (which by requisite, any discussion of morality in the end requires theology), yes they are, for fall have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Yet by secular standards, for most people there isn't any obligation to help... anyone. Sure, a cop or medic may under certain circumstances have some obligation, but they are the exception, not the rule.

As for the skillwire economy, as I see it 5e has rendered it untenable. A drone workforce is now a better option and as for any obsolete piece of corporate property, the once useful wired workforce still has organs which have value once re-purposed.

But the wired workforce was also a big chunk of your consumer base. If you replace all your workers with drones then no-one has a job, which means that no-one can buy your stuff.
Mainly a problem for the corps who had massive numbers of skillwired workers (like Horizon), but still something to keep in mind.

[RHat]

If you are going the theological route (which by requisite, any discussion of morality in the end requires theology), yes they are, for fall have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Yet by secular standards, for most people there isn't any obligation to help... anyone. Sure, a cop or medic may under certain circumstances have some obligation, but they are the exception, not the rule.

... WOW. Just wow. Let me just say two things and leave it there:

1) You're proceeding from a false premise (that morality requires theology) in a way that can be taken as being ignorant and highly insulting. It's a discussion I won't get into here, because as I recall that's against the rules of these boards, but I'd be more than happy to take it up via PM if you like.

2) By at least some secular standards of morality, there is an obligation to help in that you're morally responsible for the consequences of your choices. By choosing the course of inaction, you're responsible for any harm that stems from the choice not to act (or, some would argue, any harm you could have predicted).

[BigGreenSquid]

... WOW. Just wow. Let me just say two things and leave it there:

1) You're proceeding from a false premise (that morality requires theology) in a way that can be taken as being ignorant and highly insulting. It's a discussion I won't get into here, because as I recall that's against the rules of these boards, but I'd be more than happy to take it up via PM if you like.

2) By at least some secular standards of morality, there is an obligation to help in that you're morally responsible for the consequences of your choices. By choosing the course of inaction, you're responsible for any harm that stems from the choice not to act (or, some would argue, any harm you could have predicted).

What you are talking about is the difference between ethics and morality. The two are generally seen as interchangeable, but are philosophically worlds apart. If you look at any college catalog (apart from a religious institution) you will see many philosophy classes on ethics, but it is doubtful you will find a single one on morality.

Ethics are rules created by men for the governance of human behavior (with the notable exception of divine command theory). Morals are rules handed down by some form of higher power/deific figure for the governance of human behavior. Generally you find discussions about correct and incorrect behavior in ethics, you do not find mention of good and evil. There can be and often is a great deal of overlap between morality and ethics, however the two are not necessarily the same.

A very good example on the difference between ethics and morality would be Bushido. It is developed mostly out of Confucianism, which is also not a religion, but is a philosophy and ethical system. Under Bushido there are some situations that would require one to commit murder (although it is a legal killing), even the murder of women and children. Not to do so would be dishonorable and unethical, yet under almost any moral system (including Shinto and Buddhism which do have some influence upon Bushido) the murder of women and children is immoral.

[RHat]

[...]but I'd be more than happy to take it up via PM if you like.

[Flaser]

What you are talking about is the difference between ethics and morality. The two are generally seen as interchangeable, but are philosophically worlds apart. If you look at any college catalog (apart from a religious institution) you will see many philosophy classes on ethics, but it is doubtful you will find a single one on morality.

Ethics are rules created by men for the governance of human behavior (with the notable exception of divine command theory). Morals are rules handed down by some form of higher power/deific figure for the governance of human behavior. Generally you find discussions about correct and incorrect behavior in ethics, you do not find mention of good and evil. There can be and often is a great deal of overlap between morality and ethics, however the two are not necessarily the same.

A very good example on the difference between ethics and morality would be Bushido. It is developed mostly out of Confucianism, which is also not a religion, but is a philosophy and ethical system. Under Bushido there are some situations that would require one to commit murder (although it is a legal killing), even the murder of women and children. Not to do so would be dishonorable and unethical, yet under almost any moral system (including Shinto and Buddhism which do have some influence upon Bushido) the murder of women and children is immoral.

Your initial statement about morals requiring a "God" or another supernatural entity is still wrong. You distinguish ethics vs. morality by saying that one is man-made, another "natural". Even if morals are natural, the requirement of God is not implicit in this statement, unless you subscribe to a theist world-view where *everything* does. I could quote Dawkins and he'd quote research on primates, but I think we're going *very* off-topic. So the gist of what I'm saying: don't be so sure of stuff taught in school, especially the humanities. By its nature these areas of study are riddled with bias. (Cultural, religious, etc... then there's your range of biases that's part of our physiology, like the observer bias, etc).

[Sendaz]

I shoot, therefore I am. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)