Adept vs. Cyber Senses, There must be a catch... Options

[Oddfellow]

Quick question. It seems to me an adept can buy replacement cyber ears and eyes for much less than one essence point (I think you can throw in a smartlink on top too). He can then load them up with all the fancy mods (thermo, low light, flare comp, etc), and then geasa the point of adept power lost. On the other hand, to load up with the smae asept sense powers would cost was more than 1 power point, which can't be geasa'd back.

So, what am I missing? There must be some advantage to the "natural" adept powers. Can somebody fill me in?

[shadd4d]

On the visability chart and other perception modifiers, the magical senses of an adept count as natural, rather than cyber.

That's the main advantage + their easier to acquire without the invasiness and essence loss of cyberware.

Don

[TinkerGnome]

Compared to the other good uses for a point of cyberware (skillwires or smartlink anyone?) on an adept, this doesn't really rank high. Lots of people would find it useful, though, I guess.

[BIG BAD BEESTE]

Yup, its as Shadd4d said there - the adept stuff counts as natural. Take the roleplaying side into account too - no cybereye cleaning kit required, doesn't get damaged thus needing replacement because the adept heals normally, and keeps your essence up which is a bonus if encountering certain critters out there.

The main bonus for an adept is the powers that they can access that cybertech just can't replicate. Stuff like Astral Perception, etc. plus the fact that the adept isn't limited to an Essence of 6 to get these powers. They can purchase additional power points for 20 Karma each as well as get initiated and the corresponding metamagic abilities. Long term the adept is far superior.

However, if you want the quick and easy cybertech upgrades you might as well just go with a sammie. You save the priority B slot for a start.

[Lilt]

shadd4d's right. The natural mods are often a good 1-2 points lower than the equivalent cybered ones. That and if you take cybereyes you lose any natural vision mods you accquired racially, where an adept can simply add more. Cybered low-light vision is also inferior to natural thermo vision in all circumstances but thermal smoke (where you could just use normal vision anyway for the lesser penalty). IE: for the adept to gain superior modifiers compared to the cybereyes sammie in most situations he only needs to buy Thermo and Flare Compensation.

[edit=see below] There is also the fact that adepts cannot geas magic loss. They may apply geases to their powers, but their magic still goes down thus the maximum level they could have in any power also goes down (to 5). [/edit] Also: it is not the adept's choice wether or not to geas a power, it is the GM's.

[TinkerGnome]

Ack. Adept Geasa are horrid for cyberware loss. For one thing, the GM decides if you get one, and if you do, what it is and to what powers it applies.

Good luck with that one.

[Lilt]

[Oddfellow]

Thanks for the responses. The natural vs. cybered advantage is the big thing I was missing. That makes the higher cost for physad sense mods make perfect sense.

Although, if you were going to give your adept a smartlink anyway (I'm thinking here of a gunslinger type with several extra dice in a firearms skill) the full cyber sensor package seems like a good use for the other .5 essence.

I thought a starting physad could choose his own geasa to replace a point of magic/physad power. So, you could, spend 5 points on shooting/reflexes/stealth and then take an exclusive geasa for 1 point of powers, say, enhanced perception (or whatever). I could be way off base here, I only ever play mages or ex-detective types, so I'm no expert on physad rules.

[Nikoli]

Also, if I recall, Canon stats that magic loss is per implant, not by essence, though many house rule it to be by essence. Also, when was the last time you saw a non-cybered adept get stopped at an airport MADS station?

[shadd4d]

Or use it to add in bioware, assuming that the GM says that essence and magic #s are together rather than seperated. Then you can go with some useful pieces of bioware.

Don

[TinkerGnome]

Eh? Magic loss is by points of essence, not implant (SR3, p 160, upper left). Bioware loss is now added in with this per the errata on Man and Machine. Both are canon.

[Oddfellow]

At chargen magic loss is by essence...I should have mentioned that my thinking here is all for a starting character. Cyber for any awaked pc post generation is always a pain.

Although I agree that avoiding cyber that sets off red flags at airports is an advantage, replacement eyes and ears are pretty innocous as far a cyber goes. Wired III+Titanium bone lace would through a much bigger monkey wrench into your vacation plans.

Here is a followup question. If you were going to put just enough chrome/bio into a physad so that you only suffered 1 point magic loss, what would you toss in. (I realize it depends on the character concept, just looking for some good ideas).

[TinkerGnome]

Got a page quote on that? p 160 seems to cover starting and later lowered essence and its effects on magic pretty well.

[Eyeless Blond]

I guess it really depends on the character, but if it were me I'd either go with a SL2, datajack, knowsoft link, and plastic bone lacing + stuff, or skillwires[3] plus a chipjack/ECD (and datajack if you can fit it in there).

[Oddfellow]

I think we are agreeing with each other tinker...the rule is that magic loss is by essence. I was refering to how in some games there are "non-rule" issues with awakened characters and enhancement (GM might require a specialist do the work not a street doc, etc...there are canon refernces to this sort of thing in the novels).

[Crusher Bob]

The best bet for cyber is to get the things that absolutely cannot be done with adept powers, the datajack is one. Some like the smartlink too.

[TinkerGnome]

[A Clockwork Lime]

As always it depends on the character. But for a pistolero-type adept, a Smartlink-2 (0.4e Alpha), Enhanced Articulation (0.6b), and Mnemonic Enhancer 3 (0.6b) is a nice combo for just one point of Magic.

[Smiley]

For one point of magic loss, i'd probably thow in some enhanced "artwinkulation" and a mnemonic enhancer. The smartlink would help, but i just can't pass up the extra dice to EVERYTHING and the lowered karma costs.

[Lilt]

Mnemonic enhancer isn't as good nowadays after the errata. You're possibly better to go with Reflex Recorders, a TD (very nice combined with pain resistance which dosen't have the incompatibilities Pain Editors do), or a rating 1 ME with something from the above.

Datajacks are another favourite, and let you do the Decker-Adept thing if you grab centering on technical skills.

[TinkerGnome]

The CED + chipjack + skillwires 3 thing is probably the biggest bang you can get for 1 point of magic. Particularly true since many mage and adept characters don't need cash as badly as they need karma.

[Lilt]

Yes, Skills are often a low point for mages. They spend 12 points on sorcery 6/conjuring 6. Possibly even another 6 on centering. That dosen't leave much for your other skills.

[A Clockwork Lime]

Mnemonic Enhancers are worth it just for the Knowledge Skill and Language Skill bonuses. I don't know about you guys, but I never seem to have enough Knowledge Skill points to make me happy.

[Eyeless Blond]

Hrm. If you're going that route, you can get:

datajack
Multi-slot chipjack (2 slots)
[2] ECD (rat. 2)
Skillwires [2] 12Mp (Enough for 1 Rating 2 Activesoft)

All alphaware, for Essence 1.00 and 68,000 :nuyen: . Or:

chipjack
ECD (rat. 3)
Skillwires [3] 27Mp (Enough for 1 Rating 3 Activesoft)
Headware memory (45Mp)

All alphaware, for Essence 1.00 and 136,500 :nuyen: . Or (I like this one):

datajack
knowsoft link
chipjack
ECD (rat. 3)

enhanced articulation
nitchiating membranes (-1 to eye irritants + flare comp)

DNI-modded skillsoft Jukebox (81Mp x 3 ports)

All augmentations alphaware or basic bioware, for Essence .64 and Bio .7 (total Magic cost .98-->1) and 93,720 :nuyen: . What I like about this last one is you can pick up a whole lot of cheap rating 3 knowsofts and slot them into the jukebox (whichcurrently can hold three such knowsofts and can be easily upgraded), run them through the chipjack (using the datajack to cycle through them), and have 6 dice to each particular knowledge skill.

[A Clockwork Lime]

As previously mentioned in another thread, you're better off with Skillwires 3/13 and a Customized ActiveSoft. Equivalence of a Rating 4 'soft for only 800 nuyen more, but saves you a bundle on the 'wires themselves (19,500 nuyen vs. 40,500). You won't notice the extra cost for the ActiveSofts until you buy 27 of 'em.

EDIT: It also saves you 0.2 Essence over Rating 4 'wires.