Being SINless Options

[WizKid]

I'm fairly new to Shadowrun (only played in a few games), and I'm running my first game now with friends who are even more new than I am. We're playing 5th edition, and the setting is Seattle.

My question is this: what exactly are the consequences for being SINless? I know that it's a crime not to have your PAN openly broadcasting, but what happens when you walk into a civilized area (Downtown for example) without a fake SIN? Are you arrested on the spot, escorted back to the barrens, or what? Also, who/what else checks for a SIN besides the Knight Errant officers?

[RHat]

Being SINless sucks, pure and simple. You have you have no rights (so if you get arrested, they can do whatever the hell they want), you have no official presence (for example, you have no accounts, so making money is kind of impractical)... On the plus side, you're not in the system, which means your biometrics aren't in the system - SINner runners have to be a lot more careful. Still, a fake SIN is a necessity for pretty much every character (the SINless need it to get by outside the Barrens, and the SINners need it so that they can keep their real SIN clean while conducting criminal activity). At least one, anyways - many characters will have a few.

[SpellBinder]

Well, broadcasting in your PAN is your identity info, which includes some of what's in your SIN (like name & nationality). Any purchase transaction you make that's not done via certified credstick can involve a background check, though your local Stuffer Shack won't check as deeply as the one at Gun World would. If you don't actually have a SIN, then "no soup for you!", and many places in Seattle aren't likely to be willing to take a certified credstick.

When you are eventually arrested you'll find that you have no rights. You legally do not exist as a person, and therefore things like Miranda Rights, right to legal counsel, and such don't apply to you. You don't have to be charged with any crime because you're like an illegal alien, except that you actually don't have a country of home or an embassy to call upon for help. A fake SIN can help, insofar as long as everyone believes it's a real one.

[Umidori]

Pertaining to the practical effects, if you're in a "civilized" part of Seattle, no one is really gonna be able to tell anything by looking at you (unless you're dressed to kill, of course), so naturally what you need to worry about is the Police who have a modicum of tech-savvy and a reason to be scanning.

In SR5, any device within 100m not running silent is visible on the Matrix. Since you're supposed to be broadcasting your SIN and not be running silent, any cop using AR should be able to tell that you're not broadcasting your SIN. Now, whether they respond to that fact depends on a few things. If it's a beat cop on patrol, they're probably gonna stop you and inform you that you are legally required to broadcast your information, and they'll basically ask for your ID. Conversely, if it's a KE officer stationed at a crime scene or outside a courthouse or something, they've got bigger fish to fry.

If you comply and start broadcasting your Fake SIN, they might let you go with a warning if it appears legit at glance, but they are probably just as likely to call it in and veryify it. It'd likely depend on the cop, and on their mood and on the mood of their dispatcher at the moment. A busy or lazy officer will have you start broadcasting and that's it. A hardass, or one being driven to meet a quota, or one having a bad day or whatever will go to the trouble of verifying. And all this assuming the cop in question isn't a racist or corrupt or whatever and therefor willing to just exploit the fact that you have no rights and beat you for kicks, or worse.

If you don't have a Fake SIN to show, then they're gonna want to take you down to the station to get you processed and issue you a Criminal SIN (since it's illegal to be SINless). You can comply, and receive your new SIN, or you can run for it. If you run, you have further options. Do you quickly shoot the officer before they can react, giving you a bigger head start but landing you in much more heat overall? Or do you just try to book it, probably getting shot at while you run, but ultimately stirring up the hornet's nest less? Just remember, the Bronze don't care much about tracking down every SINless punk who has the bad luck to get caught straying into "civilized" territory, but they're quite happy to hunt down cop-killers.

There are other threats besides boots on the ground as well. Police drones are relatively common, and they don't take donut breaks or bribes. Small flying drones can hover over crowds or fly down sidewalks scanning groups of people and looking for those not broadcasting, and perhaps calling in nearby officers to come and perform an ID check in case the person who isn't broadcasting needs to be taken in for processing. Such aerial units are used more for spotting than anything else, but there are also ground based drones to worry about. While you won't see them everywhere, nicer parts of town might sport slick, shiny Steel Lynx drones, and since they're large enough to field weaponry and sturdy enough to take a licking, I could easily imagine one of them performing an ID check on a suspicious person, like something out of Robocop or Judge Dredd.

Aside from the police, there are other problems as well. Shopping without a SIN requires you to use "cash" such as credsticks, and while many places do of course still accept them, it'll probably get you some funny looks in nicer parts of town. Additionally, anything that isn't obviously a "public" area is fair game for SIN checks - although the rent-a-cops in most private buildings probably don't have the tech to properly run a check on your SIN, they can at least deny you access if you fail to broadcast one, and even then they might call in the one you do start broadcasting to have the cops run the numbers for them. If your Fake SIN doesn't hold up, they'll hear about it and they'll try to keep you there until the cops arrive to come take you downtown.

You also can't rent an apartment legally. If you're SINless but not homeless, that means you rent under the table. If you're lucky, that's no different than renting legally. If you're unlucky, your landlord will never be around except to collect the money, and anything that gets broken you'll have to fix yourself. If you're really unlucky, your landlord might squeeze you for "interest" or "fees", possibly even blackmailing you into paying, or worse.

~Umi

[Voran]

Thankfully the new rules on detecting fake ID/SIN is waaaaaay better than before, making it plausible that a decent (3) fake ID would be generally sufficient to eke out a basic existence and not get blown every time you hit McDonalds.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Thankfully the new rules on detecting fake ID/SIN is waaaaaay better than before, making it plausible that a decent (3) fake ID would be generally sufficient to eke out a basic existence and not get blown every time you hit McDonalds.

McDonalds, The Golden Arches, Holy Grail of Inner City Fine Cuisine. Those of us in the rest of the world have to be satisfied with McHughs. They suck.

[Umidori]

They have decent security though, at least at the non-franchise locations.

~Umi

[Bearclaw]

When ever I try to think of SINs and how they work, it hurts my soul.
It's a silly idea that only plays for people that never leave the country. Really, a universal ID? Think about it:

As you can get a SIN from anywhere, anyone with ANY money has no excuse not to have a SIN. If you're not good enough for the UCAS, I'm sure the Cal Free State will issue you one. Especially if it's going to irritate the UCAS. Tsimshain will issue you one for some cash, cause they need cash and hate everyone. Don't tell me anyone who's got 10,000 nuyen can't get a real legal SIN somewhere. Any meta-human from Seattle just has to grease a couple of palms to get smuggled across the border, become a member of the Salish nation and bang, they have a SIN.

Really, don't think about it. Some one was trying to be cyber-punk in '88 or so and thought it was a good idea. And it's not bad as long as you are playing a small localized game, but it doesn't scale.

[Umidori]

If you like working as a guy who "Shoots People In The Face For Money™", you probably want to not have all your biometric data in a global database.

All they need is your DNA at a crime-scene to figure out which SIN they need to look for, and to convert that SIN to a Criminal SIN. That way, the next time you go buy a sandwich somewhere that checks for SINs, it'll come up with a red flag and the police will be automatically alerted to your presence. The first few times you might slip away before the Bronze arrive, but eventually there's gonna be a KE patrol car near enough to catch up with you and then your lunch turns into an attempted arrest which turns into a shootout.

Oh, right, and any legitimate rentals you're making on apartments will be terminated, any online purchases will be denied, and any cops you pass within 100m of in the street will see your now Criminal SIN and come question you, unless you're Running Silent, in which case they will come question you.

Or were you thinking more along the lines of SINs for the SINless who want legitimate work?

~Umi

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

They have decent security though, at least at the non-franchise locations.

~Umi

Well, yeah, that's true. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Still, a trip to a real McDonalds would be epic. Frakkin' McHughs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Fiddler]

McHughs: Better than devil rat on a stick (but not by much)

[RHat]

When ever I try to think of SINs and how they work, it hurts my soul.
It's a silly idea that only plays for people that never leave the country. Really, a universal ID? Think about it:

As you can get a SIN from anywhere, anyone with ANY money has no excuse not to have a SIN. If you're not good enough for the UCAS, I'm sure the Cal Free State will issue you one. Especially if it's going to irritate the UCAS. Tsimshain will issue you one for some cash, cause they need cash and hate everyone. Don't tell me anyone who's got 10,000 nuyen can't get a real legal SIN somewhere. Any meta-human from Seattle just has to grease a couple of palms to get smuggled across the border, become a member of the Salish nation and bang, they have a SIN.

Really, don't think about it. Some one was trying to be cyber-punk in '88 or so and thought it was a good idea. And it's not bad as long as you are playing a small localized game, but it doesn't scale.

In generally, SINless who can afford that would rather stay SINless.

[SpellBinder]

In generally, SINless who can afford that would rather stay SINless.

Only those who don't fall for the corporate propaganda.

[RHat]

Only those who don't fall for the corporate propaganda.

Those who fall for the corporate propaganda aren't gonna have 10000 nuyen plus smuggling expenses at any one time - they'll have already given it to the corps.

[quentra]

One of my players once asked what it would cost to buy a citizen's share from the PCC and gain a PCC SIN - I decided that the cost of a citizen's share would be the cost of a permanent medium lifestyle, non-transferable, which sounded reasonable-ish to me.

[takaetun]

Sorry, what's the source for being SINless/not broadcasting a SIN being illegal? I was under the impression that if you were SINless you were scum, but not necessarily a criminal under the law, and people who ran silent were bound to get odd looks and be avoided a little since they had something to hide, but that was it.

[Fiddler]

I think it comes from a misreading of criminal sin. A criminal sinner is required to broadcast his sin. I don't think privacy mode is illegal just rude.

[Sendaz]

It was better explained in 4th edition, specifically pg 41 inSR4A

Technically, everybody is supposed to have a SIN (it’s illegal not
to), but in reality, many people don’t. Some had them erased; some lost
them when the Matrix went down in ’64 and getting a new one was
too much of a hassle; some never had one at all because their births
were never recorded. The SINless, as they’re called, tend to operate
outside the system and have a hard time doing anything legitimately,
since not having a SIN marks you as either an alien or a person subject
to lesser rights.
Of course, the best of both worlds for shadowrunners is to have
one—but not their own. Underground services for setting up fake
SINs are in high demand, and there’s no shortage of customers. Some
runners even maintain more than one fake SIN, corresponding to
one or more false identities based in different cities and even different
countries. If one is discovered, the runner simply dumps it and picks
up another.
Be careful, though—if the cops arrest you and you don’t have
a SIN (or you have one that doesn’t match up), they’ll assign you a
“criminal SIN,” which has significantly fewer rights and privileges than
a regular one.

As to broadcasting your SIN, the better the neighbourhood the more this was expected. Try walking into an AAA Zone with commlink in silent mode and it will draw attention from local security forces as it will look to them as you do not belong.

[WizKid]

Page 82 of the Seattle 2072 handbook has a short story about two cops patrolling around Everett, and near the bottom of the page the younger cop finds a SINless hobo and says "“Your PAN isn’t broadcasting in open mode, that’s a violation of section 342 of the …”, then he gets cut off. That's the only source I have for it being illegal to not broadcast your PAN. It's a violation of section 342 of...something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Voran]

Yeah its two fold for the not-broadcasting dude:

Sinless walking into a 'good neighborhood': Security swarms you, "WTF, where's your ID?" On finding person is SINless, decide they can beat him to a pulp, cause no rights.

SIN-type (fake or not) walking into 'good neighborhood' A couple potential outcomes: "WTF where's your id?" On finding person is low level SIN-type, "Don't do it again dickbag, we'll throw you injail" On finding the person is a 'high level' SIN-type running silent because FUCK YOU THAT'S WHY: "Please sir, have a nice day."

[FuelDrop]

Yeah its two fold for the not-broadcasting dude:

Sinless walking into a 'good neighborhood': Security swarms you, "WTF, where's your ID?" On finding person is SINless, decide they can beat him to a pulp, cause no rights.

SIN-type (fake or not) walking into 'good neighborhood' A couple potential outcomes: "WTF where's your id?" On finding person is low level SIN-type, "Don't do it again dickbag, we'll throw you injail" On finding the person is a 'high level' SIN-type running silent because FUCK YOU THAT'S WHY: "Please sir, have a nice day."

Gotta love how fair and impartial the law is...

[Umidori]

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." - Anatole France

~Umi

[Blade]

"Can I see your press card?"
" But I'm not a journalist!"
[taking his stun baton] "Perfect"

[Shemhazai]

@Umidori : Your posts in this thread are excellent. I've thought of other things that could happen, but I'm not sure if they're realistic.

1) You explain that you didn't know that you weren't broadcasting and when you try to broadcast, it appears to be broken. You either get hauled to jail, or if you're lucky, you get a ticket and a big fine on the spot or go to jail. They may insist on you manually giving them your SIN to run it against your biometrics.

2) Upon learning that you're SINless, rather than issuing you a criminal SIN, you get escorted out of the jurisdiction. Giving you a criminal SIN would involve gathering and filing your biometrics, and then let you legally remain there as another headache for them. Maybe they just want you gone, but don't have anywhere civilized to deport you to, so they just dump you in some hellhole that's sufficiently far from where you were caught. Of course they would file your faceprint for their own use; if you decide to come back and they catch you again they will know that you're a repeat offender.

3) I envision checkpoints that scan your faceprint and compare that to the SIN you're broadcasting.

[Umidori]

I could see legitimate cases of Situation 1 occuring very, very rarely. It's a clever idea, so as a GM I'd probably give the player a chance to get away with it, maybe make a few random "odds" rolls to see how the cop responds.

Situation 2 actually makes sense in a lot of circumstances. Processing a SINless bum means paperwork, so any cop who doesn't like filling out forms will probably be more willing to kick you around a bit and then dump you outside city limits rather than go through the hassle of taking you downtown and getting your processed. Hell, modern day cops do this to the homeless all the time.

Situation 3 is kind of redundant, because any Fake SIN already contains your "biometrics". It's just the filing information like your name and whatnot that are fake.

~Umi