[X] My Assistant

[Lynchmob]

So other than some possible links to blood magic (is this detailed in any of the sourcebooks? i.e. how much power the blood mages have?), what makes Aztechnology so much worse than the corps? I've been working my back through the metaplot and some people have alluded to Amazonia being the "good guys" in the war that just wrapped up but I just haven't gotten that impression. I'm not calling Aztlan white knights or anything I just haven't been able to find something that makes them evil. Well, beyond the whole oppressive corporation exploiting it's citizens while sacrificing humanity for power. I mean Sirrurg deserved a whooping something fierce and Amazonia didn't seem too offended about him fighting on their side.

[Sendaz]

The Aztlan Sourcebook is a good place to look at the background some. Remember that the nation of Aztlan and the Corp Aztechnology are pretty much hand in hand though the official line is they are still separate entities.

[FuelDrop]

I think it was their stated mission goal to destroy the world and rule what remained that tipped me off.

YMMV, though.

[Bigity]

The fact the corp was run by a blood mage/blood spirit gesalt thingy (IIRC) probably has alot to do with it.

But also remember the almost everyone else was just a normal person.

[Raiden]

azzies- bad people 90% of the time in my book.

[CanRay]

Parts of their Constitution are REDACTED!

[DireRadiant]

No sacrifice too great....

Most Aztlaners are making enormous sacrifices in their quest to save the sixth world.

Aztechnology is what happens when your plan to save the world might have a teensy weensy little flaw.

[ShadowDragon8685]

It's safe to say that Aztechnology is pretty much about 89% pure Evil. About the only big powers in the Sixth World more unambiguously villainous than the Azzies are Sirrug the Destroyer and the Sea Dragon.

[Smash]

Isn't the point of the setting that ALL Megacorps are bad?

[Raiden]

Isn't the point of the setting that ALL Megacorps are bad?

I refuse to believe Ares, Horizon, and seader-Krupp are "bad", now does that make then good? not wholly so.

[quentra]

All the corps are evil, in my book. Because this is cyberpunk. And they're megacorps. That's the whole fucking point. (where's that Neo-A spirit with today's youngsters? Buying all that corporate hype.)

[FuelDrop]

I refuse to believe Ares, Horizon, and seader-Krupp are "bad", now does that make then good? not wholly so.

Ares may or may not be infested with bugs.
Horizon has a 'Happiness is mandatory' policy and enforces it with mind control.
Seader-Krupp is headed by a Great Dragon.

Don't be confused by how brightly they shine from the background, they are merely black in a world that is blacker than black.

[FuelDrop]

double post

[Raiden]

great dragons are in the end, imo, good. (as about as "good" as you get in SR) Ares being infested doesn't mean they like (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) . and at least horizon is happy happy happy.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Meh. Personally, my view on Horizon is that they were being set up to be the lightest shade of gray in the setting, and then someone new came into power on the project, said "what the what the what the fuck is this drek!?" and promptly put out a lot of splatbooks that painted them as being just as evil as the other corps (such as Horizon violating their "no lethal force if we have any other means available" policy all over a mob of unarmed technomancer protestors.)

My way of looking at it is that is that Horizon has been targeted by a massive smear campaign by the other Megas to drag their reputation down into the mud with the rest of them; that shit in Vegas, if it actually happened, was the culmination of a hostile 'Run against them resulting in Horizon losing control and their security being fed false orders, and so forth and so on.

[Voran]

Actually I liked the slow spiral of Horizon. Its a perfect example of why you don't want a mob mentality to rule things. Its like the MiB speech from Tommy Lee Jones about 'people vs an individual person'. Look at some of the IRL nonsense of our USA political scene, what happens when a sufficiently 'loud' group, even if a technical minority, starts having the opportunity to color the discourse.

I consider it 'regression to douchebag'.

[Opti]

If you need a reason to feel like Aztechnology are the "bad guys," you can start with their history. They were originally an amalgamation of the most powerful Mexican Drug cartels called Oro. Then they realized they could play the same game the big boys were playing and started going "legitimate," but not giving up any of their cutthroat ways. They changed their name to Aztechnology along the way to distance themselves from their past (at least in the public eye). They forced Aztlan to nationalize all non-Aztechnolology corporate holdings in Central America and then forced Aztlan to sell those assets to Aztechnology at rock-bottom prices. They then gobbled up all of the central american countries into their empire.

Add to that the blood magic, the purposeful callbacks to the"glory days" of human sacrifice, and the blatant and wonton use of magicks and tech that systematically cause damage to the physical and astral landscape of the world...

[FuelDrop]

If you need a reason to feel like Aztechnology are the "bad guys," you can start with their history. They were originally an amalgamation of the most powerful Mexican Drug cartels called Oro. Then they realized they could play the same game the big boys were playing and started going "legitimate," but not giving up any of their cutthroat ways. They changed their name to Aztechnology along the way to distance themselves from their past (at least in the public eye). They forced Aztlan to nationalize all non-Aztechnolology corporate holdings in Central America and then forced Aztlan to sell those assets to Aztechnology at rock-bottom prices. They then gobbled up all of the central american countries into their empire.

Add to that the blood magic, the purposeful callbacks to the"glory days" of human sacrifice, and the blatant and wonton use of magicks and tech that systematically cause damage to the physical and astral landscape of the world...

Weren't they actively trying to hasten the arrival of the Horrors at one point, too?

[Lynchmob]

I should have been clearer that I meant I didn't see what made Aztechnology more evil than the other megas. Obviously they are all evil, yes Ares too, and some are a little darker than others but none of them are the heroes of this story. I pretty much missed 4th edition so I didn't watch Horizon go from good to evil so much as assumed they were just as evil as everyone else but had done a better job of hiding it. That may or not be accurate it's just how I ended up interpreting things from the perspective of *starting* at 2075 and looking back. Really I'm just trying to figure out if the Azzies are straight up in bed with super-bad-dark-forces-mojo or the blood magic is more similar to bug spirits in Ares or shedim in the White House. I might just be trying to convince my self that they're not that bad because I thought taking down Sirrurg was awesome and just want somebody to root for.

[Raiden]

eh, rooting for evo.

[Jaid]

eh, rooting for evo.

i'm rooting for CAT (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Makki]

in the cannon Aztechnology has one of the best PR campaigns and the common folk believes them to be the best guys. Remember the azzies are in charge of food and groceries, which puts them much much closer to the little guy, then for example SK or Ares.
Horizon provides entertainment - nobody would shun them either...

[Lynchmob]

I take it all back guys. I just started skimming through the old Aztlan sourcebook. Yep, those dudes are straight hardcore uncut evil. Actually it's a little unclear who is exactly calling the shots and how much of this evil is calculated decision vs manipulation by dark forces but results matter more than processes in this case.

[Makki]

you know, evil is just a point of view created by cultural background and education.
Imagine an Aztlan guy writing a "UCAS and Ares Sourcebook"...
Radical Islamists don't attack Western civilisation because they're evils being sent from hell. They believe to be doing the right things, they just have a different pov and opinion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Voran]

Side note, in game experience over the editions, I've generally found I am more likely to do an Aztech run, than an SK one.