[5e] Mage/Face Character Options

[Fyndhal]

Hey, all. Starting in my first 5e game soon and wanted to have folks take a look at the mechanics of the character I've put together. He's a Cat Shaman who minors as a Face. Any suggestions on ways to improve on the basic theme or, more importantly, are there any big mistakes I made?

Priorities:
Skills C
Stats B
Magic A
Race D
Resources E

Race: Elf Type: Magician
Race Bonus: Low-Light Vision

Player Name: Celondon
Character Name: Jerry Driver
Street Name/s: Lynx
Size, weight, phsical details:

Karma (total earned) : 0 Account 1: 125
Karma (unspent) : 0 Account 2:
Street Cred : 0 Account 3:
Notoriety : 0
Public Awareness : 0

Attributes Rating Modified Rating
Body (1/6) 3 3
Agility (2/7) 3 3
Reaction (1/6) 3 3
Strength (1/6) 1 1
Willpower (1/6) 5 5
Logic (1/6) 4 4
Intuition (1/6) 4 4
Charisma (3/8) 8 8

Special Attributes Rating Modified Rating
Edge 2 -
Initiative 7 7
Initiative Dice 1d6
Resonance
Magic 6 6
Inititation Grade 0 -
Essence 6.000 -

Attribute-Only Tests
Composure: 13
Judge Intentions: 12
Memory: 9
Lifting/Carrying: 4
Base carrying cap: 15kg
Physical Monitor Boxes: 10
Stun Monitor Boxes: 11

Limits Limit modified Limit
Physical 3 3
Mental 6 6
Social 9 9

Positive Qualities Rating
Focused Concentration 3
Mentor: Cat
Spirit Affinity: Beast

Negative Qualities
Low Pain Tolerance
Incompetant: Firearms
Distinctive Style
Prejudiced (common/biased -- Trolls)

Group Skills Rating Modified Rating
Influence 2
-- Etiquette 2
-- Leadership 2
-- Negotiation 2

Skills Rating
Alchemy 1 (Karma)
Arcana 3
Assensing 4
Astral Combat 1 (Karma)
Binding 5 (Magic A)
Con 6
Perception 2 (Karma)
Sneaking 3 (5 -- Totem)
Summoning 5 (Magic A)
Gymnastics 1 (Karma)
Counterspelling 6
Spellcasting 6

Knowledge Skills
English N
Current Fashion 3
Magical Communities 3
Magical Security 3
Nightclubs 3
Sperethiel 3
Spirit Theory 1

Spells
Agony
Chaotic World
Increase Reflexes
Physical Mask
Trid Phantasm
Stunbolt
Mindlink
Heal
Improved Invisibility
Chaotic World (Alchemy)

Contacts
Name Type Rating Loyalty
Talismonger 3 3
Police Detective 3 3
Fixer 3 3
Mob Lieutenant 3 3
Security Hacker 3 3

Equipment Rating Additional Info
Armored Jacket (Armor Rating 12)
Renraku Sensei Commlink
Stylish Eyeglasses 4 Double Cost for Style Points
- Aug: Image Link, Flare, Thermo, Enhance 1 Availability 8
Earbuds
- Aug: Spatial Recognition, Enhancement 1
Gas Mask
Gloves, AR
Platinum Credstick
Fake License: Magic Use 4
Fake Sin 4
Magical Lodge Materials 5
Reagents: 50 Drams

Karma Use:
10 Resources
6 Contacts
10 Edge > 2
10 Skills
13 Positive Qualities
-24 Negative Qualities

EDIT: Modified version based on feedback so far. Changed Magic C to Magic A, Changed Skills A to Skills C, changed some Qualities, Dropped one off INT and added it to AGI.

[Jack VII]

- I think you're 2 points shy on contacts.
- What did you spend your karma on? Looks like 5 points on a spell, not sure about the other 21. You had to have dumped some in your gear. Did you go all 10?
- You appear to be missing knowledge skills.

Edit: I like the idea of a debuffing Cat shaman, but I think your 3 Magic is really going to make it difficult to be highly effective as resistance tests are compared to the post-limit hits.

[Fyndhal]

- I think you're 2 points shy on contacts.
- What did you spend your karma on? Looks like 5 points on a spell, not sure about the other 21. You had to have dumped some in your gear. Did you go all 10?
- You appear to be missing knowledge skills.

Karma:
1 spell
3 Spirit Services
10 Resources
6 Contacts
2 Skills

Knowledge Skills
English N
Current Fashion 3
Magical Communities 3
Magical Security 3
Nightclubs 3
Sperethiel 3
Spirit Theory 3

[Jack VII]

I count 46 skills/10 skill group, which is what you would have from your Skills A priority.

You should have 26 Karma to spend based on your Qualities, but only show 22 in your spent karma (including the 2 on skills I can't find).

Sorry, screwed up my maths on the contacts.

[Fyndhal]

I count 46 skills/10 skill group, which is what you would have from your Skills A priority.

You should have 26 Karma to spend based on your Qualities, but only show 22 in your spent karma (including the 2 on skills I can't find).

Sorry, screwed up my maths on the contacts.

You're right. I have 1 skill point unassigned (how the heck did I manage that?) Tossing that into Summoning (for Summoning 6) then spend 2 Karma to get Gymnastics 1.

So, after correcting that, My karma looks like the following:

Base: 25
Positive Qualities: -24
Negative Qualities: +25
Spells: -5
Bound Spirit Services: -3
Resources: -10
Contacts: -6
Skills: -2
= 25-24+25-5-3-10-6-2 = 0 Karma left.

[Jack VII]

When I counted, all 46 skill points were accounted for (make sure to include the point for the Astral Combat Specialization). If you bumped up Summoning by 1 without spending karma for it, you probably over by 1 now.

Edit: Actually, Gymnastics 1 is already listed above. I think what you're saying (or at least what I would suggest), is to move the 1 point from Gymnastics to Summoning and then pick up Gymnastics 1 with the 2 spare karma points in the karma spending step.

[Fyndhal]

When I counted, all 46 skill points were accounted for (make sure to include the point for the Astral Combat Specialization). If you bumped up Summoning by 1 without spending karma for it, you probably over by 1 now.

Edit: Actually, Gymnastics 1 is already listed above. I think what you're saying (or at least what I would suggest), is to move the 1 point from Gymnastics to Summoning and then pick up Gymnastics 1 with the 2 spare karma points in the karma spending step.

Right. That's exactly what I did.

[Shemhazai]

Your cat mentor gives you +2 to illusion spells, rituals, and alchemical preparations, not only spellcasting.

You have rating 6 in Ritual Spellcasting, but know no rituals.
You have rating 3 in Alchemy but only know one alchemical spell.
You may have up to 6 spells, 6 rituals, 6 alchemical preparations, Page 69.

You are in a team of combat monsters, but have no healing magic of any sort.

Agility and Edge are very low. You're going to be weak in combat, while at the same time being very slow and have almost no extra dice when things go badly for you.

Instead of spending 3 Karma on bound spirit tasks, which you can easily get during the game, consider spending it on a rating 3 power focus. That will give you 3 more dice to just about every magical thing you try to do.

[Jack VII]

Instead of spending 3 Karma on bound spirit tasks, which you can easily get during the game, consider spending it on a rating 3 power focus. That will give you 3 more dice to just about every magical thing you try to do.

That would take 18 karma, no?

[Shemhazai]

That would take 18 karma, no?

I thought it was 1 karma times the rating for foci bonded at chargen, not the full cost shown in the book.

It would take money though, and I realize now that the character doesn't have any.

The thing about mage faces, which should be a great character concept, is that they need lots of skills (five skill groups). Maybe forego alchemy and arcana, and even ritual magic. You need to pay 5 karma for every alchemical version of a spell you know, and 5 karma for every ritual. I think this is a concept that to be good at both sides, you need to sacrifice a lot.

[Jack VII]

I thought it was 1 karma times the rating for foci bonded at chargen, not the full cost shown in the book.

The chart on p. 98 says: "Variable; see p. 318 for bonding costs of foci"

[Fyndhal]

Based on Feedback, I'm going to restructure the character to have Magic A and Skills C. I'll update the thread later with the new layout.

[Fyndhal]

You may have up to 6 spells, 6 rituals, 6 alchemical preparations, Page 69.

You brought up a lot of good points, but I have to clarify on this: That's MAX, not to start. To start, with Priority C, you have 5 Spells, Rituals OR Alchemical Formulae, not 5 each.

[Fyndhal]

Updated first post with new version of the character build.

[Shemhazai]

The chart on p. 98 says: "Variable; see p. 318 for bonding costs of foci"

Oh wow, that's a big nerf for awakened characters.

[ElFenrir]

I'd be a bit concerned with a 1 Strength and no Running. You can essentially never run; you can't default to it. If you ever need to get away, you're going to be in a bit of trouble. I'd honestly try to get that to at least a 2 and grab a point of Running. 3 dice is better than zero, and in a group of combat folks you might want to be able to escape.

[Sendaz]

He is a Face, running makes you sweaty and while when a lady sweats it's sexy, on a guy it stinks and hence less social bonuses. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Teasing mode off]

But yeah, may need to think a little more atheletically. That or at least invest in smoke grenades or something to cover you while you skip away from the field.

Yes Skip. If you can't run, skip.

Whistle a merry tune while you do it.

That should confuse them for a few seconds before they open up on you and hopefully you will be close to cover by then.

[Shemhazai]

I'd be a bit concerned with a 1 Strength and no Running. You can essentially never run; you can't default to it. If you ever need to get away, you're going to be in a bit of trouble. I'd honestly try to get that to at least a 2 and grab a point of Running. 3 dice is better than zero, and in a group of combat folks you might want to be able to escape.

I thought that the minimum number of sprint tests per Combat Turn was 1. Also, each hit gives elves 2 extra meters per Combat Turn, so having 3 dice or 1 die is not such a big difference. If it turns out that there is no defaulting on running, that would be pretty strange.

This character build is a great example as to how terrible the lack of skill groups at chargen is.

Stunball: This spell in 5th edition is almost an absolute waste. You will roll Spellcasting + Magic [Force] against Willpower. You've got 12 dice, for an average of 4 hits minus whatever they get on their roll, which I would expect to be about 1 hit, for an expected final damage of 2-5 boxes of stun damage. You'll almost always shrug off the drain (F - 3) with your massive drain pool (13 dice!) Consider an indirect combat spell.

If you pick Lightning Bolt or Ball Lightning, if you damage your opponent, they get -1 to all actions and defense tests (but not damage resistance) for 1 Combat Turn and they get an immediate -5 to initiative score. Multiple hits are non-cumulative, but extend the affected period by 1 Combat Turn. What you risk is not hitting at all, especially opponents with Reaction + Initiative > 12. But if you do hit, you'll be hitting them with Force + net hits minus their hits on Body + Armor minus Force. So pray to hit with your 12 dice. Trolls in full body armor, full helmets and insulated armor ruin your day, as do ninjas with 20 dice to dodge. A cool thing is that you'll be taking away their dice with your other spells.

Maybe have one combat spell for normal opponenets, and one direct one for those special cases. You can get it after chargen.

Focused Concentration: It's expensive, but at least one point is almost essential. Were you thinking of sustaining Force 3 agony for -2 to all of their tests? Remember that they get to resist that with Willpower and the drain is so low that you can get away with Force 5 or 6, making it harder to counterspell or dispel, at no real drain cost to you. And you might get a lucky roll, nailing them for 6 blocks of illusionary damage, making their modifiers +4 even if they have no damage.

Chaotic World and Chaotic World (Alchemical): Why don't you pick two different spells so they can stack? Get the one with the higher drain code as the alchemical version so you can make a couple and then sleep off any drain you get before you physically go on the run. Then activate the alchemical version at the same time as another debuffing spell such as Swarm, which will lower the initiative scores of your opponents.

Thrown weapons?: How will you get your alchemical Chaotic World lynchpin in the middle of your opponents so it can be the center of the spell's area of effect? You can throw it like a grenade or use a spell like Magic Fingers or Levitate, but that would be much slower. You can also get one of your combat monster buddies to chuck it like she would a grenade.

Sustaining foci: You'll need these because of the spells you've chosen. Otherwise, you'll be taking too many -2 dice pool modifiers. I recommend getting them after chargen.

[Fyndhal]

I thought that the minimum number of sprint tests per Combat Turn was 1. Also, each hit gives elves 2 extra meters per Combat Turn, so having 3 dice or 1 die is not such a big difference. If it turns out that there is no defaulting on running, that would be pretty strange.

This character build is a great example as to how terrible the lack of skill groups at chargen is.

Stunball: This spell in 5th edition is almost an absolute waste. You will roll Spellcasting + Magic [Force] against Willpower. You've got 12 dice, for an average of 4 hits minus whatever they get on their roll, which I would expect to be about 1 hit, for an expected final damage of 2-5 boxes of stun damage. You'll almost always shrug off the drain (F - 3) with your massive drain pool (13 dice!) Consider an indirect combat spell.

If you pick Lightning Bolt or Ball Lightning, if you damage your opponent, they get -1 to all actions and defense tests (but not damage resistance) for 1 Combat Turn and they get an immediate -5 to initiative score. Multiple hits are non-cumulative, but extend the affected period by 1 Combat Turn. What you risk is not hitting at all, especially opponents with Reaction + Initiative > 12. But if you do hit, you'll be hitting them with Force + net hits minus their hits on Body + Armor minus Force. So pray to hit with your 12 dice. Trolls in full body armor, full helmets and insulated armor ruin your day, as do ninjas with 20 dice to dodge. A cool thing is that you'll be taking away their dice with your other spells.

I thought about Lightning Bolt, but Stunbolt just seemed a better "fit" in terms of personality.

Maybe have one combat spell for normal opponenets, and one direct one for those special cases. You can get it after chargen.

I'll probably pick up an Indirect spell with Karma...Drones are immune to Stunbolt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Focused Concentration: It's expensive, but at least one point is almost essential. Were you thinking of sustaining Force 3 agony for -2 to all of their tests? Remember that they get to resist that with Willpower and the drain is so low that you can get away with Force 5 or 6, making it harder to counterspell or dispel, at no real drain cost to you. And you might get a lucky roll, nailing them for 6 blocks of illusionary damage, making their modifiers +4 even if they have no damage.

In the test run I did yesterday, Focused Concentration proved to be nearly useless to me. I'll likely drop it and use the karma to get a sustaining focus.

Chaotic World and Chaotic World (Alchemical): Why don't you pick two different spells so they can stack? Get the one with the higher drain code as the alchemical version so you can make a couple and then sleep off any drain you get before you physically go on the run. Then activate the alchemical version at the same time as another debuffing spell such as Swarm, which will lower the initiative scores of your opponents.

I was under the impression that you could only learn Alchemy versions of Spells you could cast. If that isn't the case, replacing it with Confusion or Swarm is not a bad idea.

Thrown weapons?: How will you get your alchemical Chaotic World lynchpin in the middle of your opponents so it can be the center of the spell's area of effect? You can throw it like a grenade or use a spell like Magic Fingers or Levitate, but that would be much slower. You can also get one of your combat monster buddies to chuck it like she would a grenade.

The plan is to use "Superballs" combined with "Command" based triggers. Hand one of those to a team mate and let them toss it out there for me, then say the command word when it is in the correct spot.

Sustaining foci: You'll need these because of the spells you've chosen. Otherwise, you'll be taking too many -2 dice pool modifiers. I recommend getting them after chargen.

As I mentioned above, I'll probably pick one up to replace Focused Concentration. But, yes, 1 or 2 more would be useful...(and send me spiraling off into Focus Addiction, which ought to be fun.)

[Jack VII]

Combat Spell Choice: I really think you should always go with at least one direct and one indirect spell. Considering the party you're in, the direct spell could be very useful for picking off already wounded enemies (you can even go stunbolt if your GM is using the normal Grunt rules as Stun=Physical). Given that you're a Cat Shaman, Stunbolt may be more appropriate due to the behavioral restrictions. But you should always have an environmental indirect spell in your back pocket for drones and barriers and such.

Preparations: No, you don't have to already know a spell in order to learn it as a preparation. The text that I think you're basing that off of is just pointing out that spells and preparations are different and you have to learn them separately.

Focused Concentration: Unless you're going mostly all in on FC, I don't really see the point. Since it only allows you to freely sustain a spell of [Force] up to the level of FC, I have a difficult time thinking of what spells might be useful with FC (1) unless you use a limit breaker before casting.

[Shemhazai]

You didn't find it helpful to have a spell sustained without the -2 dice to everything, or was rating 3 not enough. What you can do is cast a low Force spell with reagents so you can get your full amount of hits. Improved Reflexes is amazingly helpful.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You didn't find it helpful to have a spell sustained without the -2 dice to everything, or was rating 3 not enough. What you can do is cast a low Force spell with reagents so you can get your full amount of hits. Improved Reflexes is amazingly helpful.

And fairly easily gotten rid of at Force 1. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Shinobi Killfist]

And fairly easily gotten rid of at Force 1. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Not much more difficult than a 4 force one in 5e. Its just a 3 dice difference on the opposed test, I don't think it will be all that common that you will bump into mages who decide to dispel instead of attack in the first place and then the ones that are stopped by that 3 dice difference but could nail your force 1 focus makes it even rarer.

In 5e you would be foolish to take a sustaining focus past force 1, get 3 sustaining focuses all at force 1 It will take over 100 dispels/wards etc before the costs in reagents equal the cost difference from a force 1 to force 4 focus and you save karma on the side. There is not risk/reward with the reagent method it is pure win.

[Fyndhal]

You didn't find it helpful to have a spell sustained without the -2 dice to everything, or was rating 3 not enough. What you can do is cast a low Force spell with reagents so you can get your full amount of hits. Improved Reflexes is amazingly helpful.

FC 2 was too low to be useful. In order for it to have worked, I would have needed FC 4. I just couldn't see a use for a Force 2 spell.

The Reagents tip is...useful. I'll have to remember that.

[Shemhazai]

FC 2 was too low to be useful. In order for it to have worked, I would have needed FC 4. I just couldn't see a use for a Force 2 spell.

The Reagents tip is...useful. I'll have to remember that.

Check all the spells where hits determine the effect. Which spell did you need in Force 4?