4th edition positive quality in 5th, fame (is it really a positive quality?) Options

[Stormdrake]

So have a player who as their back story wants to have been on the 2068 Olympic team for fencing. It's fluff so I say "why not?" However I say you are gonna be well known and its gonna be hard to run the shadows without every one identifying who you are unless you take steps like wearing masks and not talking. I look up "famous" and while it does mention it is a double edged sword all of the description is positive. So how often should I play the "hey aren't you?" Card? Ideas or thoughts anyone?

[Isath]

I would play it about once per run, as long as it makes sense. More people are unaware of who is on the olympic fencing team (or that there is one), than not; so the fame is rather circumstancial. I'd determine, the "fame factor" by a mixture of probability and randomness. Factors may involve, Interest in Sports (Fencing), Skills like: Athletics, Bladed Weapons, certain knowledge skills, or a knack for useless knowledge. Maybe use two dice... one to determine, if someone knows the character and one to see how much is known.

Fame really is double edged. It can help you here and there, it can really be a nuisance and on a run... it can outright kill you. If the weong guy recognizes you, it can blow everything, if you run into one or more fans, it can expose you or at least draw attention to you. Can be nice for a face though.

[Glyph]

Cosmetic surgery is quick and outpatient in Shadowrun, so compared to the effort of erasing your identity and getting a fake SIN, changing your appearance is fairly easy. If the player insists on keeping his original appearance, then he should expect it to be a double-edged sword (so to speak). Fame is a quality that can be more of a detriment than it is worth in a more serious campaign (where rule of cool gets trumped by verisimilitude more often).

[Erik Baird]

Well, if he goes through the trouble of changing his face I'd think that fame would no longer apply to him. "Hey, chummer, there's no way that you're the great fencer that got shafted in the 2072 Olympics. I watched every match, and you don't even look like him. Now get outta here before I call the cops."

[Jack VII]

I built an elven decker who's backstory was a Tir Celebutante until Bad Drek Happened. I gave her the Distinctive Style NQ. She dyed her hair and doesn't wear the clothes and make-up anymore, but she looks "just" enough like she did in the old days that a lot of people tell her "Hey, did anyone ever tell you that you look like that elf slitch from the Tir that kept flashing her lady business to the paparazzi a few years ago?"

[Voran]

Hm. This topic and a couple others on the board in the past few days makes me recall that in the general group-rpg thing, what I found worked best for us was when we all made characters, while abilities and stuff were completely free, we had to all sort of agree on disadvantages that would spill over to group synergy. Largely for logical stuff:

"Why would our group of sneak-runners pair up with the guy with Corp SINner, or Fame/etc" Its not impossible, but its a variant on the old alignment stuff. "Why would this largely chaotic aligned party be running with an LG, much less a Paladin?" the group needs to come up with something plausible, or you can potentially end up with more group infighting than actual 'vs game' fighting.


As for Fame, I see it as an interesting constraint too. In order to keep fame you need to also keep kinda static. Appearance needs to stay the same, ID needs to stay the same (at least for the 'public' part), but if you're not keeping it that way, you shouldn't benefit from the fame bonuses.

Take Kat from the jackpointers, she's got her public on-stage rocker personae, to enjoy that she needs to keep active with it, to run, she notes that she needs to change up her appearance and stuff.

[Dolanar]

Fame makes me think of something like Clark Kent/Superman,

[Slithery D]

Yeah, I'd say 98% of Olympic competitors, and 75% of Olympic medalists, aren't meaningfully famous at all. Maybe once in a career you can have someone recognize him for a one off story line or problem, but I don't think too many people are going to remember a guy from the fencing team 7 years ago.

[toturi]

Send the famous guy in. Presumably he is a Face, or has good Facey abilities. No one else on the team gets remembered, except in relation to the famous guy.

People do not remember the other guys on the team. Or at most, "you're that guy who runs with What-His-Name". This is good for those people who do not mind being in someone else's shadow, but the PCs are shadowrunners, if there isn't a shadow handy, bring your own.

[Stormdrake]

Thinking on it I agree the recognition of an Olympic medal holder is gonna be pretty fleeting.

[Jaid]

he didn't even say the guy won. just that he was on the team.

honestly, if you lined up the entire US fencing team (or in my case, the Canadian fencing team), how many of them would you be able to name? how many would you actually recognize as being on the fencing team? how many would you even recognize as being someone you know of?

and if your answer to any of those questions was not "none of them", then is it because you're specifically part of that culture?

unless you're on a shadowrun where you're trying to infiltrate a fencing club or something like that, it will probably never come up.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well... I MIGHT recognize Michael Phelps and Ryan Locte. Maybe. I know what they look like, and they trained not far from my home for years (70 miles away is not all that much of a distance when compared to their fame). But actually seeing them and recognizing them is a bit iffy, I think. Michael Phelps is internationally famous, but even he may just blend into the background. I do not really follow swimming (or any sport for that matter), but media exposure on Phelps and Locte was immense. As far as recognizing any one else on the team? No way, at least not me.

Closest comparison I could make.
Honestly, fame has always seemed like a wasted Quality, unless you were running that specific style of campaign (Like playing Johnny Silverhand in Cyberpunk 2020, or Kat o' Nine Tails in Shadowrun), I just do not seeing it having much of a place unless specifically designed for.

[Shemhazai]

If any NPCs have high blades skill, they could easily be sword fighting enthusiasts. That, along with rumors that the former Olympian runs the shadows could make him rather recognizable in the shadows.

[Glyph]

One thing the Fame quality doesn't touch upon is establishing one's bona fides in order to take advantage of the social skill bonuses. So you look like someone moderately famous - so what? With biosculpting, anyone can look like someone famous. I would think people would be less likely to go "EEE!!! That's Saya Sparkle! I'm her biggest fan!", and more likely to go "Hey, that chick looks like Saya Sparkle! She must work in a bunraku parlor."

[toturi]

One thing the Fame quality doesn't touch upon is establishing one's bona fides in order to take advantage of the social skill bonuses. So you look like someone moderately famous - so what? With biosculpting, anyone can look like someone famous. I would think people would be less likely to go "EEE!!! That's Saya Sparkle! I'm her biggest fan!", and more likely to go "Hey, that chick looks like Saya Sparkle! She must work in a bunraku parlor."

Julia Roberts playing Tess Ocean playing Julia Roberts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

That's why you have the other PCs around the Famous PC. You got to have an entourage.

[Stormdrake]

The biggest thing about "famous" is the multiplier to "day job". At the highest rating of both the character is making 50k a month. Why is this person running the shadows?

[DMiller]

The biggest thing about "famous" is the multiplier to "day job". At the highest rating of both the character is making 50k a month. Why is this person running the shadows?

Fame? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[toturi]

The biggest thing about "famous" is the multiplier to "day job". At the highest rating of both the character is making 50k a month. Why is this person running the shadows?

For recreation.

[Stormdrake]

Revenge? Batman wanna be vigilante?

[Summerstorm]

Also because "Luxury Lifestyle" is 100.000, not 50.000 *g*

Back to question: Yeah as already mentioned: He isn't David Hasselhoff. Get's recognized only by tiny fraction of citizens.

[Sendaz]

He isn't David Hasselhoff. Get's recognized only by tiny fraction of citizens.

only recognized by a tiny fraction.... so he IS David Hasselfhoff? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Just teasing David, you knows we luvs ya.

[Jack VII]

only recognized by a tiny fraction.... so he IS David Hasselfhoff? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Just teasing David, you knows we luvs ya.

Just like Shadowrun, he's huge in Germany.

[Sendaz]

Just like Shadowrun, he's huge in Germany.

Yeah I know, still love teasing him.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I'd use the double edged part a varying amount based on how much of a benefit it is for the character. A face gets a lot more out of it than a a sir cuts a lot does. So I wont screw sir cuts as often as Mr Face. Also as stated olympic fencer, that isn't famous IMO.

[FuelDrop]

David who?