[X] My Assistant

[SpellBinder]

A technomancer in SR4 (per Unwired) could thread a Smartgun form (only needing a single hit) to use with a Smartgun equipped gun and nothing else. With the skinlink echo you did not even need the wireless functionality enabled.

And for 2 karma could make it a permanently active complex form (so you never suffered the -2 DP to everything else you did).

I'm not holding my breath to see this reappear in an SR5 Matrix splat book.

[Jack VII]

Oh, don't be too sure. It's just that the Fading Value will be L + 18 or so.

[SpellBinder]

Oh, don't be too sure. It's just that the Fading Value will be L + 18 or so.

Feels like wishful thinking it would be that low. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[DireRadiant]

@Jack

I believe what he is trying to achieve is the ability to have a smartgun equipped weapon and trodes, and nothing else at all - no smartlink - whether that is implanted in his body or installed in a pair of glasses/goggles/helmet/whatever.

@DireRadiant

If that is not the case, let me know

But again - you need the smartlink.

I agree the smartlink is needed. I am just wondering if it seems reasonable to have it as not a vision enhancement and not as an Implant, but simply with the Trodes.

So, Naked PC with Smartgun, Trodes, and Smartlink.

[Dolanar]

I think its reasonable situation for the fact that, to me at least, it seems to be more of a situation where, the smartlink can only connect to something that has another smartlink, but it can attach to ANYTHING that has another smartlink option & can show you the information you need. For instance, if you were able to load a smartgun program onto your commlink, the gun could connect to your commlink then through the Trodes, put the information either, in your natural vision, or you can hear something from the commlink about the gun.

[RHat]

I agree the smartlink is needed. I am just wondering if it seems reasonable to have it as not a vision enhancement and not as an Implant, but simply with the Trodes.

So, Naked PC with Smartgun, Trodes, and Smartlink.

Then what is the Smartlink installed in?

To be clear, the rules DO NOT support this - Smartlink is available in only two forms: as a piece of cyberware, or as an enhancement added to a vision device such as glasses or a scope. There is no other means to have a Smartlink in the rules.

[Dolanar]

I understand, I never said my suggestion was Raw, but it could make sense, at least to me, that if a compatible program were installed on a commlink & a set of trodes connected, that it would work similar to being installed as cyberware or such, as the gun sends the signal to the smartlink program, then that information is transferred through the Trodes to the brain, where you can see/hear some form of the information. I am simply saying what makes sense, not what the rules say. & if it makes sense, I see it as a reasonable house rule.

[RHat]

I understand, I never said my suggestion was Raw, but it could make sense, at least to me, that if a compatible program were installed on a commlink & a set of trodes connected, that it would work similar to being installed as cyberware or such, as the gun sends the signal to the smartlink program, then that information is transferred through the Trodes to the brain, where you can see/hear some form of the information. I am simply saying what makes sense, not what the rules say. & if it makes sense, I see it as a reasonable house rule.

Whatever a smartlink is and however it works, it can't really be said to just be software any more than thermographic vision can.

[Dolanar]

then perhaps something can be installed in a commlink, it obviously is a pretty simple plug & play option, perhaps a commlink option

[SpellBinder]

then perhaps something can be installed in a commlink, it obviously is a pretty simple plug & play option, perhaps a commlink option

Programs are described as files. Sounds simple, like a plug-and-play, and they're ridiculously cheap.

You can only run them on cyberdecks or RCCs. A commlink, no matter how powerful you might think it's processing power is (like the Fairlight Caliban at DR 7 & ¥8,000) cannot run one, where even the crappiest of cyberdecks (the Erika MCD-1 at DR 1 & ¥49,500) can run one.

[Dolanar]

Are we actually sure that they cannot run ANY programs? I recall a passage that specifies that commlinks cannot run Hacking programs, & while they do not specifically have a number of programs they could run, are we 100% certain that commlinks will NEVER be able to run programs? Because in theory, that means a non-decker has literally no use for the computer skill, no one but a Decker could Edit files or the like yes? namely...why have "Common Use Programs, yet state Commlinks cannot run Hacking Programs?

Edit: after re-reading the common programs, I think Cyberdeck's will be much more common a device than many of us think they are, if commlink's cannot handle any sort of program then most business professionals or even basic matrix designer's would use Deck's. I am beginning to think they will be as common as a Tablet in our world.

[RHat]

Are we actually sure that they cannot run ANY programs? I recall a passage that specifies that commlinks cannot run Hacking programs, & while they do not specifically have a number of programs they could run, are we 100% certain that commlinks will NEVER be able to run programs? Because in theory, that means a non-decker has literally no use for the computer skill, no one but a Decker could Edit files or the like yes? namely...why have "Common Use Programs, yet state Commlinks cannot run Hacking Programs?

You may want to read what programs actually do... And yes, we do know for certain that commlinks cannot run cyberprograms.

[Dolanar]

I made an Edit, & as I said, I think Commlinks are on their way out.

[RHat]

I made an Edit, & as I said, I think Commlinks are on their way out.

The thing to keep in mind is that for most use, the commlink does just fine - you can get a higher limit if you run Edit, but most workers aren't going to be running up against the limit of a good commlink anyways.

[Lobo0705]

Cyberdecks are not common - they are the tools of a hacker or spider, and they are not available to the general public legally.

The Commlink is the way that the everyman interacts with the Matrix - consider that a mere 5,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) gets you a commlink with a Rating 6 Firewall and Data Processing. To get the equivalent with a Cyberdeck (even running Edit and Encryption) You need to have a Microtronica Azteca 200 (which has an Attribute Array of 5/4/3/2 - so you assign the 5 to Firewall and the 4 to the Data Processing - and that costs you 110,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) - which is Twenty Two TIMES as expensive.

The cyberdeck is so much more expensive because it allows you the Attack and Sleaze attributes - which the vast majority of the population don't use (along with some other goodies).

[RHat]

Cyberdecks are not common - they are the tools of a hacker or spider, and they are not available to the general public legally.

The Commlink is the way that the everyman interacts with the Matrix - consider that a mere 5,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) gets you a commlink with a Rating 6 Firewall and Data Processing. To get the equivalent with a Cyberdeck (even running Edit and Encryption) You need to have a Microtronica Azteca 200 (which has an Attribute Array of 5/4/3/2 - so you assign the 5 to Firewall and the 4 to the Data Processing - and that costs you 110,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) - which is Twenty Two TIMES as expensive.

The cyberdeck is so much more expensive because it allows you the Attack and Sleaze attributes - which the vast majority of the population don't use (along with some other goodies).

It does seem possible that the high end of legitimate use could run through a deck.

[Lobo0705]

"It does seem possible that the high end of legitimate use could run through a deck."

I can see that - an elite few of the most talented programmers in the world using the advanced processing power of a deck to do their work.

Personally I just disagree with Dolanar's statement:

"I think Cyberdeck's will be much more common a device than many of us think they are, if commlink's cannot handle any sort of program then most business professionals or even basic matrix designer's would use Deck's. I am beginning to think they will be as common as a Tablet in our world."

They are just WAY too expensive to be used in that fashion by 99% of the population.

Can I see some rich kid getting his dad to pull strings and get a license for him to carry a half a million (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) Cyber 5? Yeah, I can buy that - but the middle class kid who buys the Fairlight Caliban for 7,000 is going have almost the same processing power for all of the applications that he is likely to be using.

For corporate use, the cheapest commlink they can provide their employees with is 100 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) - the cheapest deck is 50,000 - considering what most people require as far as computer processing power, they are going to choose the former (probably spending a little more than that - maybe get a rating 3 for 1,000).

For cyberdecks, IMHO - they are the tools of deckers, spiders, the elite programmers and the bored and rich.

However, to each his own - and certainly all tables are different (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[RHat]

"It does seem possible that the high end of legitimate use could run through a deck."

I can see that - an elite few of the most talented programmers in the world using the advanced processing power of a deck to do their work.

Personally I just disagree with Dolanar's statement:

"I think Cyberdeck's will be much more common a device than many of us think they are, if commlink's cannot handle any sort of program then most business professionals or even basic matrix designer's would use Deck's. I am beginning to think they will be as common as a Tablet in our world."

They are just WAY too expensive to be used in that fashion by 99% of the population.

Can I see some rich kid getting his dad to pull strings and get a license for him to carry a half a million (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) Cyber 5? Yeah, I can buy that - but the middle class kid who buys the Fairlight Caliban for 7,000 is going have almost the same processing power for all of the applications that he is likely to be using.

For corporate use, the cheapest commlink they can provide their employees with is 100 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) - the cheapest deck is 50,000 - considering what most people require as far as computer processing power, they are going to choose the former (probably spending a little more than that - maybe get a rating 3 for 1,000).

For cyberdecks, IMHO - they are the tools of deckers, spiders, the elite programmers and the bored and rich.

However, to each his own - and certainly all tables are different (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Certainly wouldn't expect them to be common, but I could certainly see them being used for things like high-end graphics work (including trid and simsense editing), among a number of other tasks.

[Lobo0705]

"Certainly wouldn't expect them to be common, but I could certainly see them being used for things like high-end graphics work (including trid and simsense editing), among a number of other tasks."

I guess what we need is some sort of idea of what "Device Rating 6" means in real world terms.

For instance, using the example you point out - what device rating would the people who produced the 2075 trid equivalent of Avatar or Pacific Rim use?

Can that be done on a device rating of 2? 4? 6? Higher?

What does the average wageslave use in his normal routine? If he uses a device rating of 1, then maybe the 6 is high enough for really high end tasks.

It isn't super important information, but it would help flesh out the game world.

[RHat]

I guess what we need is some sort of idea of what "Device Rating 6" means in real world terms.

That's actually a problematic line of reasoning that doesn't terminate anywhere useful - DR6 for a deck means something very different than DR6 for a commlink.

[Jack VII]

I guess what we need is some sort of idea of what "Device Rating 6" means in real world terms.

Pg. 234 has examples, but it has to be hilariously wrong. Unless my (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 5,000 Transys Avalon is on par with "billion-nuyen experimental devices, space craft"

[Jack VII]

That's actually a problematic line of reasoning that doesn't terminate anywhere useful - DR6 for a deck means something very different than DR6 for a commlink.

To me, that would smack of poor game design like the old D&D Level, Level, Level thing. At least in that case most of the "levels" were generally self-contained. I could tell the difference between a character level and a dungeon level. But if I have Devices that have Ratings where the same Rating means different things depending on the Device? I find that problematic.

[RHat]

To me, that would smack of poor game design like the old D&D Level, Level, Level thing. At least in that case most of the "levels" were generally self-contained. I could tell the difference between a character level and a dungeon level. But if I have Devices that have Ratings where the same Rating means different things depending on the Device? I find that problematic.

Regardless, a deck is flat out exponentially more powerful than a commlink of equivalent device rating.

[Lobo0705]

"That's actually a problematic line of reasoning that doesn't terminate anywhere useful - DR6 for a deck means something very different than DR6 for a commlink."

I could have worded that better.

The fact that a Rating 6 Commlink gives me a 6 Data Processing. How does that impact me as a person living in the SR Universe?

Is that sufficient for daily tasks? Is it sufficient for people who do moderate to difficult "computer" work? Is it sufficient for high end work?

What does having a 3 Data Processing mean?

If you break it out like that, then you are using terms that are equivalent to both commlinks and decks.

[SpellBinder]

Data Processing is pretty much used as your limit for certain Matrix actions (none of which generate OS), and used for your Initiative while in VR (hot or cold).

Other than that, nothing as far as I know off hand.