Area spells in SR5 question, Does an area spell affect targets out of view but in range of effect? Options

[Major Doom]

I'm a bit confused at the description of Area Spells (SR5, page 281), specifically the purple part:

Area spells can be cast on a specific target or a point in space that you can see. Unless noted in a spell, the area of the spell is a sphere centered on the target with a radius in meters equal to the Force of the spell. All targets in the area of effect that you can see, friend and foe alike, are valid targets for the spell. If a potential target is outside your vision (behind a screen, for example), they’re not affected.

Which seems to be contradicted under the description of Indirect Combat Spells (SR5, page 283):

...So you don’t really need to be able to see the target—you can cast these spells blindfolded or with artificial image enhancement—as long as you’ve got a clear line of fire.

So I'm wondering, if a target is hiding behind an object (vehicle, container, etc.), therefore you do not have line of sight of the target, but you can clearly see the area around the target, therefore you have line of effect, could an area spell, such as Ball Lightning, be cast to affect the target?

[Isath]

It had me confused as well, but I think we need to put the specific before the general here. While what you read there is true, for direct area-spells, there are different rules for indirect-area-spells. The Latter work more along the line of grenades. Indirect Combat Spells are not depending on a "Line of Sight".

[Major Doom]

Oh I got it. Specific type of spells override the general spell rules. Thanks.

[Jack VII]

Also, just because I had to check my sanity and figured I would save someone the time, this reference to Area spells is in the Select Target section of the step-by-step spellcasting process. In other words, the area restrictions here do NOT apply to Detection spells (which would make them rather useless), LOL.

[Sendaz]

Also, just because I had to check my sanity and figured I would save someone the time, this reference to Area spells is in the Select Target section of the step-by-step spellcasting process. In other words, the area restrictions here do NOT apply to Detection spells (which would make them rather useless), LOL.

Indeed, your detection spell would otherwise be stopped by that wall in front of you....

[FuelDrop]

Indeed, your detection spell would otherwise be stopped by that wall in front of you....

Dammit! are you telling me that I've been carrying this wall everywhere for nothing?

[Sendaz]

Dammit! are you telling me that I've been carrying this wall everywhere for nothing?

Well, anyone shooting at you still gets that -6 blind fire penalty unless they have some other way to see around it so it's not all bad.

And depending on the barrier rating it's not a half bad defense.



Hey Vinnie, isn't this hallway 20 meters long?

Yeah, why?

Because it's only 10 meters now an I don't remember this wall being here be---....

*CRASH*

*roll for surprise*

[Jaid]

Also, just because I had to check my sanity and figured I would save someone the time, this reference to Area spells is in the Select Target section of the step-by-step spellcasting process. In other words, the area restrictions here do NOT apply to Detection spells (which would make them rather useless), LOL.

ummm.... you appear to have misunderstood something.

detection spells are not area spells. they are targeted. you target a person (generally by touch, and yes that can include yourself), and the target gains a sense. the range of that sense can vary, and can go through objects in many/most cases, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the spell targeting rules any more than rules for who can have a pair of cybereyes installed determines what can be seen by those cybereyes.

so for example, clairaudience doesn't target the area you're trying to hear... it targets you or a person you touch, who then gains the sense of clairaudience, which lets them hear things at a distance including through walls and such (but not necessarily through wards or mana barriers). analyze truth doesn't target a person that you want to know is lying, it targets a person, who then gains an ability to attempt to determine if someone is lying, provided they can hear what is being said in person (this being one of the examples of a sense that does *not* function through barriers necessarily).

[Jack VII]

Actually, I understand all of that. I was attempting to prevent anyone from getting confused when they saw the Area described above and noted the "Area" keyword in several of the Detection spells and wondered whether not being able to see someone would prevent you from using your new sense on them (which again, would make several of them kind of useless). I thought I laid that out fairly clearly, I guess not.