[X] My Assistant

[WorkOver]

It was in SR4 example, I even ended my post with "Good thing they removed this" last.

The SnS are now less silly (they also have a relative damage value, not absolute) SR4 , Supermach100 deals just 4P base, but SnS overwrote that to 6S, full auto with "High velocity" adds +11 DV instead of regular +9. But, I wouldn't need to go full cheese. Any full auto gun in SR4 overrun most armor and ignores high body by simply doing such insane amounts of damage that you couldn't defend against it.
A regular AK97 with flechettes did the jog good enough. Flechettes deal +2 DV but has +5AP, (But since Form fit armor doesn't give meaningful impact armor, the net effect is +2DV but just a mere +1 AP, add to that that most base armours have 2 less impact you end up, in practice, with +2DV AND -1 AP vs a target with meaningful armor (Best basic armor + Full form fit).

6 DV (Base) +2 (flechettes) + 9 (Full auto) + ~2-6 net hits depending on how one-trick-pony you are means you get to eat 19-23 damage. Even your 20 armor and 8 body will only soak half that and you end up on oveflow in one single IP.

That is mostly gone now. Thanks to auto fire not adding insane damage any more.

It is replaced by grenades (SR5).

Without formfit (Not available in SR5 yet) you are looking at 12-14 armor + same 8 body, maybe some more from cyber for a good target. vs 18 damage from grenade. (or 16 from explosive right?). You are likely to go down from a single grenade, taking 11+ boxes of damage in one single blast despite having good armor and body. That is why Grenades replace "Full auto" in SR5 as the near flawless oneshot trick. That you can't even roll a defence versus grenades in SR5 means it might even be worse now :/

Hardened armor SR5 style makes a difference though. The juggernaught get 5 automatic hits + rolls 25-30 dice damage resist. He can take a few grenades (But anyone else is helpless). So, the change of Hardened armor to grant automatic hits makes the juggernaught even with mere 12 hardened armor a good dangerous.

In all, foe with 17 body and 12 hardened armor is a much more respectable foe in SR5, thanks to automatic hits on Hardened Armor and a slightly lesser availability for dependable 20+ damage attacks.

Why did you bring up a 4th edition argument then? Everyone knew vehicle armour was not good in 4th, and SnS was stupid.

[Surukai]

Why did you bring up a 4th edition argument then? Everyone knew vehicle armour was not good in 4th, and SnS was stupid.

Because the OP was a SR4 example...

And, as I said you don't need to go SnS to do inescapable damage with SR4, the +9 DV from full auto can't be negated with any wearable armour in a feasible way. (AK-97 with flechette rounds do 17P + net hits). No need to go high velocity or SnS.

I much prefer the new hardened armour rules.

[binarywraith]

We need to put Magneto's anti-telepathy helmet into mass production.

Honestly, I don't know why we don't see these things in SR yet, but then again I put pretty stiff restrictions on mind control in my games to prevent abuse.

Otherwise, the thing that logically follows is a full-on mass purge of all magically active people by the pitchforks and torches crowd.


The developers have never really bothered to extrapolate the societal effects of those spells. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[Sendaz]

Well tech has it's limits still when going head to head with magic. Physical effects are one thing, but the mind and auras are still a grey area for them, just like most TM abilities. They can not even really detect mind control, let alone protect against it at the current stage of manatech without using magic themselves.

As for society: They would argue that since there is such few mages that most people don't or won't have contact with one generally speaking outside of a trid or second hand story it's not a heavy issue for society as a whole.

Sure when one crazy fries a few minds, it's horrible and raises a stink but things settle out eventually once he is caught and punished, even if they don't actually catch the real villain you can bet they will get a scapegoat out just to keep the public appeased.

[binarywraith]

Well tech has it's limits still when going head to head with magic. Physical effects are one thing, but the mind and auras are still a grey area for them, just like most TM abilities. They can not even really detect mind control, let alone protect against it at the current stage of manatech without using magic themselves.

As for society: They would argue that since there is such few mages that most people don't or won't have contact with one generally speaking outside of a trid or second hand story it's not a heavy issue for society as a whole.

Sure when one crazy fries a few minds, it's horrible and raises a stink but things settle out eventually once he is caught and punished, even if they don't actually catch the real villain you can bet they will get a scapegoat out just to keep the public appeased.

Yeah, but consider that not all mages are crazies, or easily caught. One working blood mage, or god forbid, a dragon...

Let's just say that if ol' Dunkie wanted to control the Presidency, running for it was the least efficient option available.