Apected magicians., Extra screwed by Chargen Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[FuelDrop]

I've been looking over the Aspected Magician priority gen, and to be honest they are truly suffering.

I mean, you're an Aspected magician, you're already underpowered.

So if you have to be magic and you've only got priority D to throw at it then maybe it's workable, but beyond that...

At priority C you can either get an apected magician at magic 3 with 2 points (15 karma) in a magic skill group... or be a full magician or mystic adept with magic 3 and 5 spells (25 karma). Oh, and Adepts get more magic than them.

Come on! Aspected Magicians are already getting outclassed by the full magician or mystic adept in flexibility without giving the full casters MORE karma worth of benefits at the same priority.

Priority B isn't much better. An Aspected Magician gets 5 magic (to the Adept's 6, in spite of this being the highest priority for both of them) and a rating 4 skill group (50 karma). Mystic adept and full Magician? Magic 4, but 2 rating 4 magical skills (40 karma) AND 7 spells (35 karma).

I mean seriously? Aspected Magicians only get one type of magical skill, at least let them be good at it!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

But, they are not Deckers... so too bad, they just have to suck it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[FuelDrop]

But, they are not Deckers... so too bad, they just have to suck it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

I bet they wouldn't have this problem if they were Aspected Mystic Adepts...

Seriously, Why would you take them compared to a full caster, outside of concept?

[Lobo0705]

I agree, there is literally no reason, at all to ever be an aspected Magician unless you have a concept in mind EXCEPT if you take Magic D and want to be non-physical adept Awakened character. That's it. Apart from that, they suck. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I bet they wouldn't have this problem if they were Aspected Mystic Adepts...

Seriously, Why would you take them compared to a full caster, outside of concept?

Not everything is about the numbers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Sendaz]

Plus with going with a lower magic priority you can put a bit more into stats or skills, the latter meaning you can balance out some of the missing skills in any case.

Not ideal, but it is there.

[X-Kalibur]

I bet they wouldn't have this problem if they were Aspected Mystic Adepts...

Seriously, Why would you take them compared to a full caster, outside of concept?

I personally think mys ads should have to aspect their casting since they aren't splitting the magic pool.

[paws2sky]

As it stands, being an aspected magician is a terrible, terrible choice. Not only do you get crap from full mages in-game, but you're also penalized during character creation.

One possible fix: Bump aspected magicians' magic up by one point at B and C priority. Leave Priority D where it is because, as Lobo0705 pointed out, that one actually works.

With this fix, Magic 6 with Skill Group 4 at Priority B would be great, actually. You could take priority C skills and use your 2 skill group points to raise your group rating to 6. Now you're a serious magician. You're out of luck in terms of no starting spells/preparations, but you'd be kind of terrifying as a conjurer.

Side Note

[ Spoiler ]

The 5e Priority Table is more generous than the 4e Runner's Companion table, but it puts a huge amount of weight on the priorities, which make the lowest priorities seem super, extra bad. When I'm making a character, it makes me feel like Priority D and E are not just weaknesses that I have to accept as part of the priority system's give-and-take nature, but that they are actively terrible and something to avoid as much as possible.

[Chrome Head]

Yeah, we've discussed it before, such as here. Point-wise, aspected magicians are not worth it by a long shot. In terms of karma, you get more or the same for being a full mage over an aspected mage -- that's right you lose karma by going aspected magician instead of full mage in priority C, not even considering that you have the disadvantage of being aspected on top of that.

Craziness.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yeah, we've discussed it before, such as here. Point-wise, aspected magicians are not worth it by a long shot. In terms of karma, you get more or the same for being a full mage over an aspected mage -- that's right you lose karma by going aspected magician instead of full mage in priority C, not even considering that you have the disadvantage of being aspected on top of that.

Craziness.

You do not Lose Karma in Character Creation (Both Choices have 25 Karma to spend), the choices are just not equal in comparison. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I do agree, however, that many people would not take Aspected Magician over the other choices, if they choose by the numbers.

[Dantic]

Your failure is in not choosing to be a Decker.
By not choosing to be a Decker you are missing out on the spirit of 5th ed.
Also you are missing out on all the favorable mechanics that have been included in this edition specifically catering to Deckers, but mostly you're missing out on the spirit of the thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[SpellBinder]

Could be worse.

Could've been a technomancer.

[FuelDrop]

Aspected technomancer. My god, the horror.

[Dantic]

Aspected technomancer. My god, the horror.

I only do one thing, and that is edit files, but I do it very well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[FuelDrop]

I only do one thing, and that is edit files, but I do it very well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

But not as well as a full technomancer, and nowhere near as well as a decker.

[SpellBinder]

I only do one thing, and that is edit files, but I do it very well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Got a rating of 6 in Artisan with a Matrix specialty? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[grid.samurai]

This is somewhat subjective. I understand the point being made here, but a lot of players get a challenge out of playing a concept over a min/maxxed creation. The way I see it, the player doesn't get screwed by playing an aspected magician - they get the fun of playing a character who isn't at the top of their game. I usually enjoy roleplaying the flaws over the perks anyhow. I usually enjoy roleplaying over rollplaying also.

But to each their own. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[FuelDrop]

This is somewhat subjective. I understand the point being made here, but a lot of players get a challenge out of playing a concept over a min/maxxed creation. The way I see it, the player doesn't get screwed by playing an aspected magician - they get the fun of playing a character who isn't at the top of their game. I usually enjoy roleplaying the flaws over the perks anyhow. I usually enjoy roleplaying over rollplaying also.

But to each their own. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The two are not mutually exclusive. The point is that we've had the theme of this edition being "Power at a price", yet here we see a build who's all price, no power. Playing a non-optimized character for concept is fine, and is actually how I often play, but having something like this which is far worse than the equivalent full caster at the same priority means that you're better of picking the full caster and just not taking the skills you don't want, thus creating the same concept without limiting the possibility of character growth at a later date.

[Sendaz]

The two are not mutually exclusive. The point is that we've had the theme of this edition being "Power at a price", yet here we see a build who's all price, no power.

Yes, it is Power at a Price.

It just so happens that Aspected's Price is paying for Mystic Adept's Power, guess you didn't read the fine print. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[FuelDrop]

Yes, it is Power at a Price.

It just so happens that Aspected's Price is paying for Mystic Adept's Power, guess you didn't read the fine print. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

*Gets out electron microscope* Hang on a second... Hmmm.... yep, you're right. I can't believe I missed that.

[Sendaz]

Joking aside, aspected is one of the weird spots in magic. Like you said, if it's a concept you want you could just go full mage and only pick the skills relevant to that concept.

The key difference is though, Aspected do NOT get a choice as their magic is handicapped. A Conjurer adept will never be able to do spells just as a Sorcerer adept can never grasp the concepts to reach into the planes and call a spirit to them.

Following on this concept to say that an Aspected should be equal to the full mage in benefits is not necessarily true.

On one hand we can argue that since they are limited in their scope, they would put more into that focus and as such should be karma-wise the same.

But on the other, they are magi-handicapped and the concept was there to allow people who wanted a bit o' magic without having to buy the full package to be able to access some level of mojo to operate with.

Part of the problem is there is only 5 tiers to split this between, otherwise we could spread it out more and show the distinction better.

If you want the full karma benefits, then pay for the full mage and adapt the skills to your concept, it's a simple as that. Then as your character grows you can remain the same or expand as you see fit.

[shonen_mask]

I'll admit that there is even less reason to use an aspected mage except for the cheaper karma in the priority charts.....
It's more of a transition archtype between non awakened and awakened characters.
Not really chumps though since they are still a good concept.
Maybe a augmentation candidate?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The two are not mutually exclusive. The point is that we've had the theme of this edition being "Power at a price", yet here we see a build who's all price, no power. Playing a non-optimized character for concept is fine, and is actually how I often play, but having something like this which is far worse than the equivalent full caster at the same priority means that you're better of picking the full caster and just not taking the skills you don't want, thus creating the same concept without limiting the possibility of character growth at a later date.

Problem is that this option is not playing an Aspected Magician. It is playing a Magician who chooses to move in a specific direction. However, in play, if the player is frustrated with his abilities, all he needs do is to branch out his expenditures and badda-bing, badda-bang, now he can perform as a Full Magician. The Aspected Magician does not have the luxury to do so, so they are entirely different things. So, no, it is NOT the same concept at all.

And no, you are not limiting character growth at all by choosing Aspected Magician over Full Magician, you are just eliminating a path on which the character can grow. Which is also not the same thing at all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Chrome Head]

You do not Lose Karma in Character Creation (Both Choices have 25 Karma to spend), the choices are just not equal in comparison. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I do agree, however, that many people would not take Aspected Magician over the other choices, if they choose by the numbers.

I'm a bit annoyed that you randomly contradict me without checking, whereas I referenced where to find the explanation (this appears in the quote you included). No, the aspected magician receives 10 karma points less than the full mage in priority C. They each get Magic 3 (25 karma), the full mage and mystic adept get 5 spells (25 karma), and the aspected magician gets a rating 2 skill group (15 karma). In priority C, in terms of numbers, it costs 10 karma to receive the "right" to be aspected instead of full mage or mystic adept. This is pretty harsh.

[Jack VII]

I think they should have gone with a 2/4/6 Magic Attribute progression for everyone (D/C/B for Adepts/Aspecteds, C/B/A for Full Magicians/MysAds). Granted, this doesn't make up for the wide disparity between Aspecteds and Full Magicians/MysAds (goodbye 2/3s of your utility), but it would at least allow someone to play an aspected magician with a Magic Rating of 6 by prioritizing, you know, Magic, without having to dip into SA points.

I'm also of the opinion that MysAds should be aspected, although I am sure 90% would still go spellcasting, so it wouldn't really change much.