Must have qualities, Things that you buy for every character. Options

[FuelDrop]

Some Qualities are no-brainers. They are either so cheap or so good that most, if not all characters that can are going to take them.

I have a couple:
Quick healing. 3 points for +2 dice when being healed or healing? Every character can benefit from this.
Mentor spirit. For awakened characters, Mentor spirits are very good value for points and an easy way to add something unique to the character.

What are yours?

[Jack VII]

I find myself taking Natural Athlete a lot. Lots of uses for Gymnastics and Running.

[binarywraith]

None stand out. Character concept comes before points-mongering for me, so qualities tend to reflect the character's theme.

[DMiller]

None stand out. Character concept comes before points-mongering for me, so qualities tend to reflect the character's theme.

+1

[Dolanar]

agreed

[Voran]

Grumbles at the girl that gets the 500 pt quality "GM's Girlfriend"

[thorya]

Grumbles at the girl that gets the 500 pt quality "GM's Girlfriend"

Honestly, I hear lots of people talk about this all the time and I have yet to ever see it in action, despite playing with several couples over the years. The more common qualities that people take for favoritism is, "play the archetype the GM likes" or "be a disagreeable asshole that will make the game miserable for everyone else if you don't get your way".

I feel like the more common quality that girls take is, "be hit on awkwardly by sexist jerks" or "assume that because they are a girl any success they have is because the GM's being nice to them and no because of their own ability".

[FuelDrop]

GMPC: Mary Sue. How many points is that worth?

[Jaid]

GMPC: Mary Sue. How many points is that worth?

it costs a negative value of course (and can be chosen multiple times and can exceed the cap on quality karma). gotta make room for all the other good stuff, right?

[Voran]

Honestly, I hear lots of people talk about this all the time and I have yet to ever see it in action, despite playing with several couples over the years. The more common qualities that people take for favoritism is, "play the archetype the GM likes" or "be a disagreeable asshole that will make the game miserable for everyone else if you don't get your way".

I feel like the more common quality that girls take is, "be hit on awkwardly by sexist jerks" or "assume that because they are a girl any success they have is because the GM's being nice to them and no because of their own ability".

Its somewhat in jest. I've only seen in 3 different times with different GM/Girlfriend sets. There was never any blatant "here's 500 extra karma or equivalent" for non SR games, but yeah more the favoritism and magic items and stuff that happened to show up between off-times. We've also seen the "Huh, despite being a plausible threat character, that char is the last one targeted." stuff. After awhile you also tend to notice that the GM dice rolls seem to heavily favor the (favored player, can be girlfriend, or whatever) especially if behind a gm screen.

[Dolanar]

its also more common in "dating" couples than the more typical "already seasoned & lightly burned" couples that have been together for a bit.

[vladski]

While no two characters are the same and qualities tend to match up with certain different types of characters, there are a few that I see crop up often as a GM:

Criminal SIN - Well, duh. It makes sense. Most player characters ARE shadowrunners and therefore are criminals that have a criminal background at some point.

Allergy - Let's face it it. Low end allergies, especially to rare substances, are cheap and easy bonus points. I don't mind it too much in general, because as a GM it's an easy tool for me to toss in to complicate something for the PC's seemingly out of nowhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Addiction - Similar to allergies. As a GM they are fine but I am going to insist it actually affects your character.

Sensitive System - I would say a third of all mages/adepts suffer from this. You know what... I do not mind at all. It's some nice points to use to flesh out your character, it tends to keep the mages and adepts on a certain path and it's a nice gamble that nothing bad is gonna happen to your guy along the way or you are gonna really be in trouble. And it makes sense to me. Magic and tech IMO Do Not Mix Well. It's a part of the world. Why should we be surprised a magically awakened character is gonna have problems with foreign matter in their organic natural systems? It's like being surprised that an overweight person is more likely to be diabetic or have a heart condition. Doesn't have to be but is sure more likely.

Ambidextrous - pops up a lot however really few characters/players really manage to make very much out of it.

Vlad

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

None stand out. Character concept comes before points-mongering for me, so qualities tend to reflect the character's theme.

Indeed...
Gain an Internet Cookie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Surukai]

Honestly, I hear lots of people talk about this all the time and I have yet to ever see it in action, despite playing with several couples over the years. The more common qualities that people take for favoritism is, "play the archetype the GM likes" or "be a disagreeable asshole that will make the game miserable for everyone else if you don't get your way".

Both your examples are way more true than just about anything else. Do stuff the GM likes (can be more than just archetype, add race, religion, political views etc. can help too)


To OP, Quick Healer is silly good and a de facto must have. Everyone gets wounded and +2 (do you get +4 if both healer and healee have the quality?) for 3 karma is too good to pass.

The reason I personally don't remedy it or try to fix it is the much higher damage on weapons that makes my players' characters need all healing they can get to avoid spending most time face down. A more reasonable price for the quality would be 10 karma or so.

[binarywraith]

Criminal SIN - Well, duh. It makes sense. Most player characters ARE shadowrunners and therefore are criminals that have a criminal background at some point.

The only Shadowrunners with Criminal SINs are those who have, at some point, been dumb enough to get caught. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Voran]

I like the quality, "Guy that gives GM pizza" positive quality, tho with some negatives.

[Stahlseele]

I like the quality, "Guy that gives GM pizza" positive quality, tho with some negatives.

that's under common sense.

[Shemhazai]

do you get +4 if both healer and healee have the quality?

Does +2 to Healing Tests made on/for/by a character apply if the healer has this quality?

[toturi]

None stand out. Character concept comes before points-mongering for me, so qualities tend to reflect the character's theme.

It is a balance. While optimisation of the build is not as important as the core theme of the character, it is an important and crucial part. If you want to create a technomancer (despite all its inadequacies) then you need the quality for that. If you say to drop the quality, then you are not building a technomancer. But if your character theme is to build a PC that is useful on the Matrix, then the thrust of the build becomes significantly different.

[Jack VII]

It is a balance. While optimisation of the build is not as important as the core theme of the character, it is an important and crucial part. If you want to create a technomancer (despite all its inadequacies) then you need the quality for that. If you say to drop the quality, then you are not building a technomancer. But if your character theme is to build a PC that is useful on the Matrix, then the thrust of the build becomes significantly different.

I guess the edition wasn't specified, but I was assuming 5E for some reason. They did away with "character defining" qualities this go around. With that said, I do think there are some no-brainers for certain concepts. Playing a straight decker? I'd be surprised if space in the build for Codeslinger wasn't found.

[binarywraith]

It is a balance. While optimisation of the build is not as important as the core theme of the character, it is an important and crucial part. If you want to create a technomancer (despite all its inadequacies) then you need the quality for that. If you say to drop the quality, then you are not building a technomancer. But if your character theme is to build a PC that is useful on the Matrix, then the thrust of the build becomes significantly different.

See, this is where I disagree. Optimization is only a crucial part of character design if it is necessary in self-defense against other powergamers at your table. Otherwise, you're looking for effective, not optimized building, which is much easier to put several ranks of 'Troll Punk Bands' into just because.

[vladski]

The only Shadowrunners with Criminal SINs are those who have, at some point, been dumb enough to get caught. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yup. And your point is? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Everyone learns from their mistakes. Shadowrunners are not hatched fully formed. Experience is a bitch sometimes... but she can be an educational bitch. Character-wise it can also explain a contact or two on your sheet as well as being a wonderful hook for the PC when things go sideways and the law is breathing down your neck. As often as things go wrong in SR runs, I guarantee you will pay for those 10 points down the road.

Vlad

[Jaid]

See, this is where I disagree. Optimization is only a crucial part of character design if it is necessary in self-defense against other powergamers at your table. Otherwise, you're looking for effective, not optimized building, which is much easier to put several ranks of 'Troll Punk Bands' into just because.

no, optimization is necessary in game design so that you can play what you want without being punished.

that is, you need to design the game such that someone who wants to play a certain character (within reason) can play that character and not be punished for it. otherwise you end up with stuff like the 5th edition technomancer, where choosing to be a technomancer instead of a decker tends to leave you with lower dice pools, less versatility, and your only advantages come with drawbacks that make them hard to use.

[binarywraith]

Yup. And your point is? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Everyone learns from their mistakes. Shadowrunners are not hatched fully formed. Experience is a bitch sometimes... but she can be an educational bitch. Character-wise it can also explain a contact or two on your sheet as well as being a wonderful hook for the PC when things go sideways and the law is breathing down your neck. As often as things go wrong in SR runs, I guarantee you will pay for those 10 points down the road.

Vlad

Point is that it's hardly a universal Shadowrunner trait. A lot of folks don't come to the shadows from a criminal background at all. Well, at least not any more criminal than day-to-day life in the 6th world requires of them. Heck, most of the Archtypes presented in the book aren't jumped-up criminals.

no, optimization is necessary in game design so that you can play what you want without being punished.

that is, you need to design the game such that someone who wants to play a certain character (within reason) can play that character and not be punished for it. otherwise you end up with stuff like the 5th edition technomancer, where choosing to be a technomancer instead of a decker tends to leave you with lower dice pools, less versatility, and your only advantages come with drawbacks that make them hard to use.

Personal opinions aside, what's stopping you from playing that technomancer? Having less dice than a Decker would doesn't in any way make the character less playable, so long as he is able to hit the targets of the challenge level the GM is throwing at him.

You have to remember, characters don't exist in a vacuum. Higher dice pool does not equal better than unless there is a use for that dice pool. In fact, in many cases, that sort of optimization hurts games because it prevents players from making enjoyable characters due to needing to meet the level of difficulty necessary to challenge the mono-focused dicebot.

[Shemhazai]

Grumbles at the girl that gets the 500 pt quality "GM's Girlfriend"

I heard that that the errata is going to lower that to 50 Karma.