[X] My Assistant

[Darkest Angel]

Just a simple rules clarification. Back in SR3 a geas could be taken to offset magic loss from essence loss. Not abundantly clear in SR4 whether that's the case; it looks like a 'Not anymore' but equally strange is that it seems like you can take geas all the way down to zero magic whereas previously that wasn't possible.

[Dolanar]

Geasa are now a bit different depending on what you're using them for. You can take a Geas NQ which grants BP towards character creation. When the NQ is taken a type of Geas is chosen (for the sample types see Street Magic pg 27-28) if this Geas is not fulfilled you lose 1 point of magic until you can fulfill it. As an Alternate option for Adepts, you can allow them to take a Geas for a specific power & they receive a PP reduction for taking it.

However, according to pg.31 in Street Magic, the option to make the game "grittier" by reducing magic more readily is there & the Geasa to offset is still there.

The main reason for the change seems to be that Magic Loss is far less common so the rules reflect that, if your group likes that, there is a suggestion of how to reintroduce that aspect to the game (mentioned on the page above)

[Darkest Angel]

Yeah, I read those rules and it's kinda contradictory in that it says you don't lose Magic to substance abuse, and yet it's still pretty clear that you can lose Essence to it, which should in turn still result in losing Magic... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

Guess it's something to discuss with the group.

[Dolanar]

well only certain drugs will cause you to lose essence & in the case of losing essence you'd lose a point of magic, the question is whether the essence loss is permanent or for a limited duration, there are also treatments to regain lost essence assuming you have not lowered your maximum essence.

Edit: After looking over all the drugs, I only found 1 drug that specifically calls out essence loss. Typically, aside from the Geas NQ, the most common way to lose essence (without adding ware) is from a Vampire or some such creature draining you.

[Darkest Angel]

Well in this case, it's permanent insofar as it's loss to 'ware. What I find strangest though is that in SR3 taking a geas wasn't really optional; not taking one meant no more Initiations and so no way of ever offsetting the loss again - there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to take a Geas in SR4.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well in this case, it's permanent insofar as it's loss to 'ware. What I find strangest though is that in SR3 taking a geas wasn't really optional; not taking one meant no more Initiations and so no way of ever offsetting the loss again - there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to take a Geas in SR4.

I often find Story/Character reasons (rather than a mechanical one) far more compelling a reason to take a Geasa. Most of the Geasa My characters take are rooted in the Tradition that they belong to.

Besides, Magic Loss (unless it is your last point of Essence/Magic, and sometimes not even then) in SR4A never stops Initiations and further magic gain. Just means that you have to actually give some consideration to it.

[Darkest Angel]

Besides, Magic Loss (unless it is your last point of Essence/Magic, and sometimes not even then) in SR4A never stops Initiations and further magic gain. Just means that you have to actually give some consideration to it.

This is exactly why it feels weird, it's just 'some consideration' but not really all that much at all.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This is exactly why it feels weird, it's just 'some consideration' but not really all that much at all.

It was the same in 3rd, but you got to keep your Magic to boot (which I always felt was a bit wierd, personally). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)