[X] My Assistant

[Sendaz]

Page 363, the maglocks: The first step to bypassing a maglock is to remove the case and access the maglock’s electronic guts.

While there is some errata concerning how you actually bypass the maglock, my question is why the hell would you have a casing that doesn't trip an alarm when it's removed if a maintenance code wasn't punched in first?

Granted while there are numerous examples of exactly this secslacksity in real life, but you would expect something better from a corp with actual interest in security ...

If the door lock needs fixing, a valid maintenance crew would have the code, if the panel itself was busted they would let security know to disregard any alert while they fix it.

I know... game mechanics and hand waving, but it still bugs me....

[kzt]

It's worse than that. The actual maglock is usually on the secure side of the door. What you can reach is the access control input device (card reader, etc). The access control input device just sends a message with the credential you input to a computer located in a locked room somewhere on the other side of that maglock. There is a different connection from that computer to the maglock which gets used if the computer gets the right credential without too many errors. So nothing you can do to the card reader or connection (apart from giving it a valid credential to transmit) is going to open the door right now. Though you could possibly steal valid credentials for use later.

[SpellBinder]

Why not have such security on a maglock? Just means that a decker's gonna have to jack in to hack it instead.

Gotta make sure those bored deckers have at least something to do on a run. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[Emil Barr]

Why not have such security on a maglock? Just means that a decker's gonna have to jack in to hack it instead.

Gotta make sure those bored deckers have at least something to do on a run. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

I know! Why would anyone ever play a Decker? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

[Umidori]

As I recall, in 4E at least there was a version of the maglock that came with "tamper resistance" or similar, where if you mucked about with the case, you had to make a roll to make sure you didn't trigger the alarm.

~Umi

[Sengir]

Tamperproof systems are still there

[Bigity]

Basically they should all be tamper proof outside of crap like maybe into the bathrooms or janitorial closets - assuming that isn't all drones anyway.


Hopefully we'll get some updated security stuff in a sourcebook at some point. I'm not buying a bunch of 4E books for it at any rate.

[Vagabond Elf]

As I recall, in 4E at least there was a version of the maglock that came with "tamper resistance" or similar, where if you mucked about with the case, you had to make a roll to make sure you didn't trigger the alarm.

~Umi

Like Sengir said, there are still Anti-Tamper devices in the book. Defeating them is an Agility + Locksmith [Physical] roll, needing successes equal to the rating.

[Umidori]

Except he was asking why they wouldn't have a casing that trips an alarm if removed without a code, and the answer is they DO have that, in the form of the tamper resistant casings.

You can't make a casing that always sets off an alarm. There will always be some way to defeat the sensors and remove the casing.

~Umi

[CanRay]

As my group pointed out to me numerous times: "Any door a troll can open with brute force isn't secure."

This is followed by: "Any door connected to a wall that can be ripped off by a troll with brute force also isn't secure."

And, furthering the thought: "Any wall/floor/ceiling that can be used as an entrance by a troll with brute force when the door is too secure makes the room insecure."

Finally: "If the troll can't get in, thermite usually can."

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

As my group pointed out to me numerous times: "Any door a troll can open with brute force isn't secure."

This is followed by: "Any door connected to a wall that can be ripped off by a troll with brute force also isn't secure."

And, furthering the thought: "Any wall/floor/ceiling that can be used as an entrance by a troll with brute force when the door is too secure makes the room insecure."

Finally: "If the troll can't get in, thermite usually can."

And it always comes back to the judicious use of Fire, in its many, varied forms. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Teulisch]

well, the issue is a simple one from a rules standpoint.

If you have an electronics toolkit and enough time, you can try to bypass the lock (which may have an alarm).
If you have the right gadget, then you can try to quickly bypass the lock, no skill needed.
If you have enough brute force and dont care about stealth, what door?

worrying about HOW the electronics kit bypasses the door wont help- the point here is that someone with skill, time, tools, and opportunity can bypass the lock. the rules need to be abstract to a point, and this is part of game balance when B&E is an important part of play.

and really, most doors dont even need a troll, an Ork can do the job just fine. because most doors are actually not that sturdy. if you find a sturdy door, keep it to use as a shield for the troll!

[CanRay]

The truth is: Locks keep honest people out. Professionals will find a way. It's just a matter of how difficult you make it for professionals.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The truth is: Locks keep honest people out. Professionals will find a way. It's just a matter of how difficult you make it for professionals.

This... Nothing is ever absolutely secure.

[RHat]

This is followed by: "Any door connected to a wall that can be ripped off by a troll with brute force also isn't secure."

And that actually brings us right around to the first episode of Burn Notice.

[RHat]

The truth is: Locks keep honest people out. Professionals will find a way. It's just a matter of how difficult you make it for professionals.

Indeed: A sufficiently motivated and skilled person or group with access to the right resources can get through any security. You cannot control this, you can only control how difficult it is for those three circumstances to come together.

[Blade]

A good security needs three components:

1. Something to prevent the attacker from getting what he wants right away. That's what a locked door will do. It will deter some attackers, but it doesn't prevent a dedicated attacker from getting in eventually. That's what you need the second component.

2. Something to detect the attack. The locked door will force the attacker to spend more time, and to do something that can potentially be identified as an attack. But you'll need something to detect it. That's the job of a camera, or a anti-tamper mechanism in the lock. But this component won't do anything to stop the attacker, that's why you need the third component.

3. A response mechanism. Sending the cops or releasing gas, or any other solution that will stop the attacker whether during or after the attack.

Even with these three components, nothing will ever be completely safe: the lock can still be picked, the detection mechanism can be tampered with or avoided, and the response mechanism can be de-activated or resisted. But if you lack any of the three, your security will be meaningless.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You forgot the 4th Component, Blade...

Something that the attacker actually wants. Without that, then all you really need is the Lock, which will usually just move the attacker right along to something that is NOT locked. Basic Locks tend to keep out the attacker of Opportunity, because there are generally easier pickings somewhere else.

[Sendaz]

You forgot the 4th Component, Blade...

Something that the attacker actually wants. Without that, then all you really need is the Lock, which will usually just move the attacker right along to something that is NOT locked. Basic Locks tend to keep out the attacker of Opportunity, because there are generally easier pickings somewhere else.

And to this we can add the 5th Component, The Honey Pot. Something that looks like what they want and is found behind components 1-3, but is not the real deal in the hopes they take this instead of searching that one step further for the real prize.