Wireless mode, How realism killed realism and why we shouildn't care Options

[Smash]

The matrix is clearly now the biggest issue with 5th Ed. Not from my point of view but rather the point of view of players who just can't seem to let go of realism for the sake of the game. One could argue that the argument of realism is fairly redundant in a game with magic and dragons, but I digress.

People seem forever stuck on this idea that a) it's dumb that shower curtains work better when their wireless is turned on but b) they then become susceptable to hackers. The problem with this view is that it relies too much on real world knowledge that's not necessary or required to be transferable to a PnP roleplaying game. Yes, the writers are somewhat at fault for this. They have relied on using real world knowledge to sell their concepts and not anticipated how literally a lot of people would take it.

Here's an example: Real world employers employ magicians to read their employees thoughts to ensure that they are not plotting against said employer. Because you know that this is a fact of life you wear tin-foil hats to work which are proven (through lots of studies to numerous to list here) that tin foil blocks mind reading. However, let's imagine a world where the average joe doesn't believe in magic, nor realise that his thoughts are being read by afore mentioned magicians. does this incredibly naieve individual wear a tin-foil hat to work? No, they don't. Ok now for arguments sake, let's translate this outlandish individual to the Shadowrun universe. If they don't know that hackers exist, or at least don't really understand the true extent of what they are capable of doing, do they turn their wireless showercurtain off? The answer remains no.

Here's the assumptions that a lot of people are making in regard to wireless that don't really need to translate to the game:

• The matrix is a 3D representation of todays internet
• Everyone knows about hackers and what they can do and this is much worse than the benefits of wireless
• Hacking relies on wireless as we understand it and is limited in the same way as it is limited today (TCP/IP)

Are people unfounded in thinking like this. Of-course not, the rulebook is written in such a way that it explains itself in comparison to the real world. This was done I think to lend weight to the concepts presented but it seems to have had the opposite effect.

There are so many ways that this could have been approached to not caused so much heartache and that players would have accepted it. If it was me I'd have simply removed the benfits of wireless mode unless they were really obvious and just given hackers some new technology that allows them to hack devices through some kind of meta-wireless that I can't even comprehend that doesn't require TCP/IP. If they had just gotten rid of hackers and just made Deckers all Technomancers this would have been very achievable. Of-course this would have annoyed a different cohort of players and so Deckers still need to exist, but who can argue with Technomancers hacking devices with Magic? Anyone ever see 'The Lawnmower Man'? There's your hacking mechanics right there.

I think one of the reasons that the writers have gone the way they did with wireless is that it gives non-hackers some way to counter attack. Get a good comlink, use the wireless defence action, turn your wireless off, etc. All these things are merely options and options give you more strategic and tactical depth. We should just embrace them. Yes you can be cynical and just say "pftt! Everyone will just turn wireless off" but as soon as you face that elite operative who has all his linked cyber turned on and is shielded by a competent decker then you'll probably wish that you had done the same. There's also probably going to be 5 runs where Deckers are not a threat to every one where there is. Are you going to just forego your bonuses against the 80/20 rule? Personally, I'd put more faith in my Decker.

Yes there are some scenarios where your trauma patch probably shouldn't work better with wireless in the middle of a jungle with no available wireless. My advice is just be happy and confident that you're getting the bonus without any chance that a decker will brick your patch..........

[Erik Baird]

Your argument is that people should just hit the "I believe" button? I dislike what I've heard about the wireless bonus because it's an unacceptable security risk for most of the stuff it's been applied to and has no reason other than gameplay! for the application. Plus, I don't think computers, even in 20xx, could be that fast when you introduce a communication link and a second computer to the application.


Psst, wireless depends on radio, not TCP/IP.

[NeVeRLiFt]

The current campaign I'm playing in, the GM does not use any of the wireless bonus stuff and just uses the Matrix like it was back in 3rd edition with the ability to hack certain wireless things only.
But again hacking and the matrix really take a back seat and is just brushed over.

I would just talk about it with your group and make house rules.

People are so paranoid about all their stuff being hacked and bricked it sorta just ruins the games if you go by how they have it in the rule book currently.

[Dolanar]

very well put, however there are a few details that should be mentioned.

1. for many pieces of gear that have wireless bonus functionality it is a pointless mechanic, I want the bonus dice to my Autopicker? I turn the wireless on, open the door, then turn it off, unless a Decker is watching me waiting for me to turn on something to wireless its more or less just stating to your GM "When I use this I am turning the wireless on then off, each time I use it".

2. The Bonuses you get from turning wireless on are kinda bleh. There is very little incentive to turn the wireless on.

3. your example about mages reading minds is a little bit off. We are shadowrunners, we either run with or hire people regularly who hack people's devices regularly, why would we, as paranoid lawbreakers, not expect that the people we are hacking wouldn't hire people to hack us back? to use your example, its like Joe Average works with a Coven on his days off, & talks to the mages about how they read people's minds, why wouldn't he assume people are trying to read his mind too.

4. Assuming you choose to have a back-up plan rather than relying on the team Decker. You have to ensure that you always have the best possible commlink, because anything else puts you in danger of getting bricked or worse if you do set things to wireless on & slave to your Commlink. If the point was to allow the Decker's to do more things, then relegating them to Commlink Defender seems a little silly.

Choosing to take a DR3 or so commlink when now the only difference between them is how well they defend you against being hacked makes little sense to me. Yes you could play the purely story based character who is a street level runner who has never been hacked. But I think at that point you're trying to play a slightly blinded character. We break the law as part of our jobs, hacking into secure facilities & stealing their prized data, its only Reasonable sometimes they might come back with Decker's to try to get it back.

[KCKitsune]

I also think the writers were not thinking when they put in the ability to brick cyberware. If you can have some punk Decker trash your 100,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) wired reflexes with his cobbled together deck (we know those rules are coming in the decking splat book), then why use wired reflexes when you can get synaptic booster for a hell of a lot less Essence. Sure you don't get the Wireless bonus crap, but then again you can put more stuff in.

[Epicedion]

Of course there's a hacker around every corner just waiting for you to turn on your wireless.

--

The danger to your gear is vastly overstated on this forum. Deckers just aren't an omnipresent threat.

1) Security forces don't exist solely to deal with runners. Standard thieves, gangs, citizen mobs, and disgruntled former employees are far more common than shadowrunners. Most of these people aren't elite black-ops hackers. Running with your gear in throwback mode 100% of the time to counter a threat that only exists 5% of the time is like running your car with the airbag shut off all the time because you heard that in a tiny percentage of accidents the airbag can be more dangerous than the wreck itself.

2) Breaking someone's stuff isn't the same thing as eliminating them as a threat. Deckers risk a lot of exposure in open territory in order to attack someone's gear -- they don't get to sit comfortably in a friendly host and hide behind walls of IC. If they go out and run AR or cold-sim, they're alone and at a disadvantage. If they run hot-sim, they might get fried. And the best they can accomplish for this risk is shutting off someone's gear. Security deckers are too valuable for host-protection to be risking death in Matrix slapfights over someone's wired reflexes.

3) If a decker is attacking a group protected by another decker, his first concern will be the other decker.

4) Embedded combat deckers should be rare as hell -- maybe in an elite unit, or hanging out with an HTR team's rigger in the t-bird/van. Apart from runners, these should be the only guys running Sleaze 8 to hide their unit, blitzing riggers and enemy deckers in the open Matrix, and trashing gear. Everyone else should be comfortable that their ass is sufficiently covered day-to-day, and that the chance of running into anyone who'd threaten that is very, very low.

[Udoshi]

However, let's imagine a world where the average joe doesn't believe in magic, nor realise that his thoughts are being read by afore mentioned magicians. does this incredibly naieve individual wear a tin-foil hat to work? No, they don't. Ok now for arguments sake, let's translate this outlandish individual to the Shadowrun universe. If they don't know that hackers exist, or at least don't really understand the true extent of what they are capable of doing, do they turn their wireless showercurtain off? The answer remains no.

Your arguement falls entirely in the face of Crash 1.0, where EVERYONE IN THE WORLD lost something, someone, time, effort, money, data, with wide-spread real world economic and emotional damage beyond the purely digital frontiers.

And then Crash 2.0 made it all HAPPEN AGAIN.


Literally everyone in the world is painfully aware of the danger the matrix poses, and the risks posed when you put something online - especially when its the only copy of something.
Everyone.

You're not asking for us to hit the believe button, you're asking to brainwash the world.

[Smash]

Your arguement falls entirely in the face of Crash 1.0, where EVERYONE IN THE WORLD lost something, someone, time, effort, money, data, with wide-spread real world economic and emotional damage beyond the purely digital frontiers.

And then Crash 2.0 made it all HAPPEN AGAIN.


Literally everyone in the world is painfully aware of the danger the matrix poses, and the risks posed when you put something online - especially when its the only copy of something.
Everyone.

You're not asking for us to hit the believe button, you're asking to brainwash the world.

Not at all. People have short memories. Crash 2.0 was over 10 years ago. Think of 10 years in terms of IT. I think of where phones were 10 years ago and laugh at how primative they actually were.

Reality is that people just aren't as cautious as we give them credit for. The GFC was only 6 years ago and already financial institutions are starting to head down the same paths and are making the same mistakes.

What you're suggesting is that because of matrix crashes people logically stopped using the matrix. The cannon suggests that they use it more than ever. Besides that the matrix crash has some massive overall economic implications. It didn't educate people about how vulnerable their toasters are to Deckers. That's chalk and cheese.

Not only that. We're talking about how people act in a fictional universe. I don't think it's a big stretch that in a universe where I can 'con' a security schlub to let me into a secured facility because I'm wearing overalls and carrying a mop (obviously there are a few other peripherals involved) that they're not up with the latest in hacking technology and techniques.

[Smash]

Your argument is that people should just hit the "I believe" button? I dislike what I've heard about the wireless bonus because it's an unacceptable security risk for most of the stuff it's been applied to and has no reason other than gameplay! for the application. Plus, I don't think computers, even in 20xx, could be that fast when you introduce a communication link and a second computer to the application.

'I don't think' doesn't really have any gravitas in reference to fantasy roleplaying games. People can 'I don't think themselves into corners for everything. 'I don't think' dragons should physically be able to fly given the way things get 8 times heavier every time they double in length, but regardless of whether I think that or not, if I play Dungeons and Dragons the dragons can fly! Flight which is not provided by magic.

Psst, wireless depends on radio, not TCP/IP.

Thanks for pointing that out, but it also makes my point. It doesn't matter how it works, it just does.

[DeathStrobe]

Your arguement falls entirely in the face of Crash 1.0, where EVERYONE IN THE WORLD lost something, someone, time, effort, money, data, with wide-spread real world economic and emotional damage beyond the purely digital frontiers.

And then Crash 2.0 made it all HAPPEN AGAIN.


Literally everyone in the world is painfully aware of the danger the matrix poses, and the risks posed when you put something online - especially when its the only copy of something.
Everyone.

You're not asking for us to hit the believe button, you're asking to brainwash the world.

Which happens all the time. GOD just rolled out new protocols for the Matrix, probably with the tagline of "Crash 3.0 is now impossible." Which to be fair, there might be some implications that might be close to the case, with OS and the ban hammer, and such.

People have a very short memory, or just don't care enough. Take for example the real world NSA spying on American citizens. If this was a movie, and Snowden came out saying that "soylent green is people" there would be a revolution and the old government would be overthrown. But in reality, that's not the case. For some unknown reason, people don't care. They've become numb to it, its just a part of life. I'm sure people just expected Crash 2.0 is just par for the course when it comes to playing the Sixth World Championship. The only thing you can do is buy a gun, hunker down in your archaeology and hope that your corp security is enough to kill those nasty AI, Technomancers, dragons, or whatever the next monster of the week is.

[kzt]

Not at all. People have short memories. Crash 2.0 was over 10 years ago.

Over 10 years ago a group of fanatics killed 2,977 people one morning in NYC, Pennsylvania and Virgina. Far less then was killed by a group of fanatics in Crash 2.0. So of course everyone has forgotten about it. There is no huge goverment department of Homeland Security. The NSA isn't tapping every phone call in the entire country. It's easy to get on airplanes as nobody insists you step into a full body scanner to check you for weapons and your family and friends can accompany you to the gate. Right?

[Epicedion]

Over 10 years ago a group of fanatics killed 2,977 people one morning in NYC, Pennsylvania and Virgina. Far less then was killed by a group of fanatics in Crash 2.0. So of course everyone has forgotten about it. There is no huge goverment department of Homeland Security. The NSA isn't tapping every phone call in the entire country. It's easy to get on airplanes as nobody insists you step into a full body scanner to check you for weapons and your family and friends can accompany you to the gate. Right?

It's hard to see what point you're making. People still get on airplanes and go into tall buildings, and relatively few people take extreme measures to avoid these things. Whether or not security/safety is objectively better, people by and large don't believe there's a serious enough risk to majorly alter their lifestyles anymore. And they grouse about the inconvenience of the security measures put in place.

So have people forgotten? Maybe not, but we're long past the point that the public has by and large moved on and stopped reciting it as one of the great fears of everyday life.

[Smash]

Over 10 years ago a group of fanatics killed 2,977 people one morning in NYC, Pennsylvania and Virgina. Far less then was killed by a group of fanatics in Crash 2.0. So of course everyone has forgotten about it. There is no huge goverment department of Homeland Security. The NSA isn't tapping every phone call in the entire country. It's easy to get on airplanes as nobody insists you step into a full body scanner to check you for weapons and your family and friends can accompany you to the gate. Right?

Wow really.

Since then over 100,000 people have been killed by guns in America vs the 3,500 or so killed by acts of terror since time began. Yet gun control is not on the table and never will be. Crazy people can still buy guns without being oppressed by background checks or magazine restrictions.

Your one example of fanatical nationalism does not prove the rule, and I would argue that all those oppressive measures that you describe are not driven by the general population being informed but simply by the effective politics of fear.

[Fiddler]

In the world of IT people go for what is most convenient. Many people use the same password on everything, they turn off security featurs for convenience, heck people even turn off security because that security has a flaw even though with that flaw it's still more secure than the other security options. I don't see that changing in the world of shadowrun even runners will run with wireless on mostly, the attitude of it can't happen to me should be there. also the fact being wirelessly offline should be strange and confusing in the world (that guy is running wireless off he must be up to something) wireless is a fact of life and everyone does it. The best way to not be noticed is to be like everyone else.

[kzt]

Your one example of fanatical nationalism does not prove the rule, and I would argue that all those oppressive measures that you describe are not driven by the general population being informed but simply by the effective politics of fear.

Dude, 31,000 people a year in the US die due to chronic liver disease and cirrhosis, ie they mostly drank themselves to death. Do you see a big renaissance for the Woman's Christian Temperance Union soon?

One time spectacular events that grab attention have huge abilities to get people (voters, shareholders) to insist that the people in charge DO SOMETHING about them and as a result governments (and pseudo-governments) start to take aggressive steps to ensure that they don't happen again and also that people know they are dealing with them.

Events that kill millions and impoverish tens of millions have a really huge impact.

Which is why the idea that nobody cares of about crash 1.0 or crash 2.0 is absurd. It's like claiming that nobody remembers what Auschwitz or Treblinka was because that was over 10 years ago.

[Dolanar]

Kzt is correct, huge events are remembered, many people in their 50's will recall the exact thing they were doing when they heard the news of Kennedy, most people in our Age remember what they were doing when the Towers fell, & just as much people who were around for both Crash 1.0 or 2.0 will remember, however, remembering is not the important factor IMO. In Fact, the Crash's are probably a part of basic schooling when kids learn about the Matrix.

I'm still of the opinion that discussing the impact of the population as a whole is unimportant. We are more concerned with how the new aspects of the Matrix impact the Runner's who deal with a small er portion of the world.

[mister__joshua]

This discussion has taken a strange turn. I don't see how it's even related to the Crash 2.0. The Crash, like any big national/international crisis, happened at the highest level. It's not like it only affected those who were wireless enabled or heavy matrix users. It affected everyone.

No-one is arguing that people don't remember big events, but they don't let it change their lives. Using the 9/11 example as that seems to be the going thing, if they built the WTC again tomorrow on exactly the same spot, same height, the plots and offices would sell out in a flash. No-one worries that 'it might happen again'.

To use a better example - If I'd been in a horrific car accident and suffered permanent injuries, in all likelihood I'm not going to drive again or be too enamored by the idea of jumping into a car. But I've SEEN loads of accidents, flowers tied to lampposts, police screens and car wrecks that no-one is walking away from. Does it stop me driving? Of course not. Driving is a much better analogy for the Matrix because that's how ubiquitous it is nowadays, let alone in 2075.

[DireRadiant]

Of course there's a hacker around every corner just waiting for you to turn on your wireless.

--

The danger to your gear is vastly overstated on this forum. Deckers just aren't an omnipresent threat.

In the same vein, bullets are 2 nuyen each, everyone has em, and guns. Are you being shot all the time?

There's the potential threat, and then the actual event.

[Sendaz]

In the same vein, bullets are 2 nuyen each, everyone has em, and guns. Are you being shot all the time?

There's the potential threat, and then the actual event.

Depends on where you are.

Do you wear armor on your run going in, or wait til the shooting starts and then take the time to don it?

If you wear it going in you recognize the potential threat and try to mitigate it's potential effect accordingly.

If you wait for the shooting to start your either crazy or have hellacious agility or a mage relying on an Armor spell.

Course there is such a thing as going overboard, knew one Sammy who showered in his armor (don't ask).

Likewise the Runner Companion had a section about doing your run and specifically talked about scrubbing RFID tags off all your gear, nothing like getting busted by your underwear. But when your gear is running wireless that is even more potential ways to be detected and giving away your position.

When your running with wireless enabled, its not unlike being dual natured. You reflect on two different realms and on the electronic side Deckers and TMs are the virtual sharks you have to be aware of, because they can certainly be aware of YOU.

Are they everywhere? Nope, but they do tend to be in places we want to break into as there is where the good stuff is.

So you run silent when possible, slip in and out of the electronic realm when necessary and don't tarry less a passing Virtual Shark takes a chunk outta your gear or better yet bring your own to bite back.

[Remnar]

There's also the point that (from my understanding) the Corps and GOD have told the people that the Matrix is safe now and don't worry, just use it (appropriately).

Now, of course Shadowrunners and such know better, but the vast majority of Corp owned (er, I mean "employed") citizens are going to take that at face value and get on with their lives. Masses of people like to pretend the bad stuff doesn't exist if it doesn't directly affect them (today, short memories) from what I've seen NOW, let alone in Shadowrun where the Corp that is telling you the Matrix is safe provides your job, house, food, water, entertainment, friends, family, and peace of mind. Why would they lie? The corp is family, they are all, believe.

[kzt]

Most people don't carry guns all the time. However it turns out that most of the people that runners deal with in any sort of business relationship (friends, foes, etc) are part of that small percentage that do. Likewise, most of the people that runners get involved with in any sort of business relationship also don't do stupid crap with their electronics that makes them vulnerable.

[Tanegar]

<colossal wall of text that somehow manages to miss the point completely>

Realism is not the issue. The issue is that the setting be self-consistent; i.e., that it make sense according to its own rules. Wireless bonuses and the ability to brick hardware, as written, break self-consistency. The actions that people in the Sixth World are depicted taking do not make sense in the context of the setting.

[binarywraith]

Realism is not the issue. The issue is that the setting be self-consistent; i.e., that it make sense according to its own rules. Wireless bonuses and the ability to brick hardware, as written, break self-consistency. The actions that people in the Sixth World are depicted taking do not make sense in the context of the setting.

Exactly.

[Teulisch]

whatever the issue, we wont really KNOW until we see the matrix book. the worst problems will hopefully be addressed then. probably with a new piece of gear to buy or a new program to run. the matrix rules (and thus bricking cyberware) are incomplete as yet.

[Tanegar]

whatever the issue, we wont really KNOW until we see the matrix book. the worst problems will hopefully be addressed then. probably with a new piece of gear to buy or a new program to run. the matrix rules (and thus bricking cyberware) are incomplete as yet.

True though that may be, it's terrible game design. Expansion books should (duh) expand on the game; they should not be the primary avenue for fixing broken rules.