[X] My Assistant

[Epicedion]

Except that you are wrong here because both you and I can cite chapter and verse where that would not apply.
Please talk to any 1st year Medical Student, though, and have them describe to you, in detail, what the outcome would be if your nervous system were to suddenly combust. I can guarantee you that it would not be pretty, and you would not survive it.

You're in favor of an undocumented penalty in one case, and against an undocumented penalty in a different case. This is only evidence that you don't like the first case, not evidence that the undocumented penalty is in any way valid, much less your stated opinion of it being somehow required by the rules.

[DeathStrobe]

Fluff vs. Mecahnics... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
If the Mechanics were never intended to simulate the Fluff, then the Fluff should never have been written the way it was. *shrug*

Again, it falls back on the Developers and the Haphazard way the book was put together.

I think it has more to do with the Hollywood film effect. Just because a terminal explodes in front of the Hollywood Hacker, doesn't mean the Hacker dies. It just looks cool. And just because your head commlink just exploded doesn't mean your now brain dead, but it does mean you can't use that ware anymore. In the case of a bricked device, it is merely a cinematic way to display that you will not be using that piece of tech.

Shadowrun has always leaned more on the Hollywood side of reality. Why should bricking be any different?

[KCKitsune]

But wired reflexes isn't a replacement of your nervous system. Its a bunch of wires overlaying your nerves that just so happen to also transmit data faster to boot. You can actually turn off your wired reflexes and a character doesn't just immediately die. You just want bricking ware to be so incredibly powerful and game breaking to help reinforce your dislike of the mechanic, but there is nothing to support that it is that way. Personally, I'd prefer it to work that way, because that sounds really cool. But currently the mechanics don't support your interpretation.

OK, DeathStrobe, Wired Reflexes doesn't replace your nervous system, but the mechanical description of bricking (What the Devs WANT TO HAPPEN) shows that when a piece of gear gets bricked it throws off sparks and MELTS!

The melting point of plastic is about 100 to 130 C. Now you know water boils at 100 C, so you now have something that is as hot as boiling water NEXT TO YOUR NERVOUS SYSTEM! I'm sorry, unless you're a mutant from Marvel comics who has some super power to prevent that from harming you, then you are dead.

[RHat]

Except that you are wrong here because both you and I can cite chapter and verse where that would not apply.
Please talk to any 1st year Medical Student, though, and have them describe to you, in detail, what the outcome would be if your nervous system were to suddenly combust. I can guarantee you that it would not be pretty, and you would not survive it.

And what 'ware are you asserting that would even be the case with? Certainly not wired reflexes, which exist in addition to your nervous system...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I think it has more to do with the Hollywood film effect. Just because a terminal explodes in front of the Hollywood Hacker, doesn't mean the Hacker dies. It just looks cool. And just because your head commlink just exploded doesn't mean your now brain dead, but it does mean you can't use that ware anymore. In the case of a bricked device, it is merely a cinematic way to display that you will not be using that piece of tech.

Shadowrun has always leaned more on the Hollywood side of reality. Why should bricking be any different?

Because of the way they describe the Bricking Effect. I have no issues with your Cyberdeck exploding in a spray of melted bits and whatnot. BUT WHEN THOSE MELTED BITS COMPRISE YOUR NERVOUS SYSTEM or 'ware within your SKULL, well, then I take issue with it.

And you get me wrong again Epicedion... it is not what I want (I am in fact arguing against that)... I am parroting back EXACTLY what the DEVELOPERS WANT to happen. As DESCRIBED IN THEIR OWN WORDS. If you want to take exception, take it up with them. See, the world works one way. And the only way to see the world is through the lens of the Fluff (and not the mechanics)... And the FLUFF says that if your Cyberware is bricked, well, they you are screwed six ways from Sunday. There is no other way to interpret what they wrote but in the worst light. Your Hardware MELTS, SHORTS OUT, OR OUTRIGHT EXPLODES. Having that happen in your body is lethal to the point of ludicrousness. And you telling me that mechanically it has no effect is just as ludicrous.

As I pointed out earlier. Being in the initial blast radius of a Thor Shot has no effect. The fluff tells you that you die (and everything else is vaporized), but absolutely no mechanics are presented. It is descriptive only. Other wise some enterprising player would point to the damage mechanics and say they could survive it through some questionable shenanigans. I see the same thing here.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And what 'ware are you asserting that would even be the case with? Certainly not wired reflexes, which exist in addition to your nervous system...

You mean the Wired Reflexes that are Mapped along your nervous system, in parallel, augmenting the signals travelling along those paths, and which MELTS due to the heat and fire caused by the bricking. Tell me how you plan to survive that. How do you plan on actually doing anything with your nervous system now a literal cinder? Not to mention the Well Done steak that is now most of your insides?

Or maybe you are talking about the Cranial Cyberdeck that melts your Brain when it bricks... Or the Cybereyes, for that matter, which likely do the same thing. ANY Cyber will be ludicrously lethal when bricked, with the possible exception of limbs, which I contend will still be pretty damned damaging to the body. And let us not even speak about a bricked Air Tank in your body cavity... Tell me how you plan to survive an internal explosion at 2000 psi.

[RHat]

You mean the Wired Reflexes that are Mapped along your nervous system, in parallel, augmenting the signals travelling along those paths, and which MELTS due to the heat and fire caused by the bricking. Tell me how you plan to survive that. How do you plan on actually doing anything with your nervous system now a literal cinder? Not to mention the Well Done steak that is now most of your insides?

Or maybe you are talking about the Cranial Cyberdeck that melts your Brain when it bricks... Or the Cybereyes, for that matter, which likely do the same thing. ANY Cyber will be ludicrously lethal when bricked, with the possible exception of limbs, which I contend will still be pretty damned damaging to the body. And let us not even speak about a bricked Air Tank in your body cavity... Tell me how you plan to survive an internal explosion at 2000 psi.

Just pointing out that it isn't happening to your CNS, just in proximity to it. In any case, that bit of fluff has no connection to the rules and should never have been written, and it's existence does not influence mechanics.

[Epicedion]

And the FLUFF says that if your Cyberware is bricked, well, they you are screwed six ways from Sunday. There is no other way to interpret what they wrote but in the worst light. Your Hardware MELTS, SHORTS OUT, OR OUTRIGHT EXPLODES. Having that happen in your body is lethal to the point of ludicrousness. And you telling me that mechanically it has no effect is just as ludicrous.

Actually what it says is: "Smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles, nasty smells, and occasionally even small fires are common features of a device in the process of becoming a brick."

Turning this into "explodes violently and spews shrapnel and hot metal throughout the inside of your body" is quite the stretch. You're reading it in the worst light because you want to.

As I pointed out earlier. Being in the initial blast radius of a Thor Shot has no effect. The fluff tells you that you die (and everything else is vaporized), but absolutely no mechanics are presented. It is descriptive only. Other wise some enterprising player would point to the damage mechanics and say they could survive it through some questionable shenanigans. I see the same thing here.

So death isn't a mechanic? Interesting.

You mean the Wired Reflexes that are Mapped along your nervous system, in parallel, augmenting the signals travelling along those paths, and which MELTS due to the heat and fire caused by the bricking. Tell me how you plan to survive that. How do you plan on actually doing anything with your nervous system now a literal cinder? Not to mention the Well Done steak that is now most of your insides?

The description of Wired Reflexes doesn't mention anything about that. It does mention "adrenaline stimulators" and "neural boosters," whatever those are. You could easily say that the actual vulnerable part of the system is the controller -- the Reflex Trigger. At any rate, you're implying that the damage somehow makes wires explode, which is silly.

Or maybe you are talking about the Cranial Cyberdeck that melts your Brain when it bricks... Or the Cybereyes, for that matter, which likely do the same thing. ANY Cyber will be ludicrously lethal when bricked, with the possible exception of limbs, which I contend will still be pretty damned damaging to the body.

Because you say so, contrary to any rules on the matter. Because no cyberware is designed to fail in a non-fatal way. Again, because you say so.

And let us not even speak about a bricked Air Tank in your body cavity... Tell me how you plan to survive an internal explosion at 2000 psi.

And now you're saying that matrix damage can not only make wires explode, it can make steel or titanium alloy spontaneously rupture. You know, instead of destroying the tiny controller chip. Because that makes sense.

Man, common sense apparently suggests that everything with a wireless receiver is capable of blasting holes through everything and melting to the center of the earth. Amazing!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Just pointing out that it isn't happening to your CNS, just in proximity to it. In any case, that bit of fluff has no connection to the rules and should never have been written, and it's existence does not influence mechanics.

I agree it should never have been written. I do not agree that it should not have a say in what happens when an item is bricked, since what was written was EXACTLY what was intended to happen when an item is bricked. Its very existence informs the mechanics. And some things do not need mechanics. The effect of melting and burning Cyberware is one of them, since it WILL kill the person so afflicted.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Actually what it says is: "Smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles, nasty smells, and occasionally even small fires are common features of a device in the process of becoming a brick."

Read your own Quote... Small fires are COMMON. Not never, not rarely, note even once in a while, but COMMON.

Turning this into "explodes violently and spews shrapnel and hot metal throughout the inside of your body" is quite the stretch. You're reading it in the worst light because you want to.

So, you tell me what happens when an oxygen tank burns. I bet you say that it explodes. One of the biggest reasons you are not supposed to put compressed containers into a fire. Sounds like "Violently Explodes" to me. *shrug*

So death isn't a mechanic? Interesting.

Death is a descriptive. Nothing More.

The description of Wired Reflexes doesn't mention anything about that. It does mention "adrenaline stimulators" and "neural boosters," whatever those are. You could easily say that the actual vulnerable part of the system is the controller -- the Reflex Trigger. At any rate, you're implying that the damage somehow makes wires explode, which is silly.

You should read it again... Important Parts highlighted.

Wired reflexes: This highly invasive, painful, life-changing operation adds a multitude of neural boosters and adrenaline stimulators in strategic locations
throughout your body work to catapult you into a whole new world where everything around you seems to move in slow motion.

Neural Boosters throughout the body. What happens when all your Neural Boosters, throughout your body and tied into your CNS, all of a sudden combust? Oh wait... Death.

Because you say so, contrary to any rules on the matter. Because no cyberware is designed to fail in a non-fatal way. Again, because you say so.

No, not because I say so, because the DEVELOPERS SAY SO. Again, read what they wrote...

Devices that are bricked never fail non-spectacularly. Smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles, nasty smells, and occasionally even small fires are common features of a device in the process of becoming a brick.

So, regardless of how they were designed, devices that are bricked NEVER Fail in a non-spectacular way. So, no, cyberware does not fail non-spectacularly, PER THE DEVELOPERS OWN WORDS.

And now you're saying that matrix damage can not only make wires explode, it can make steel or titanium alloy spontaneously rupture. You know, instead of destroying the tiny controller chip. Because that makes sense.

Man, common sense apparently suggests that everything with a wireless receiver is capable of blasting holes through everything and melting to the center of the earth. Amazing!

And again your statements are ludicrous. Never did I say such things. What I did say is that when hardware in your body burns, you burn along with it. NEVER will it be non-damaging, as you contend. Simple Common Sense.

[Epicedion]

Read your own Quote... Small fires are COMMON. Not never, not rarely, note even once in a while, but COMMON.

So is "smells bad." How do you decide if the cyberware violently explodes, or just smells bad? Oh wait, there's no mechanic for it.

So, you tell me what happens when an oxygen tank burns. I bet you say that it explodes. One of the biggest reasons you are not supposed to put compressed containers into a fire. Sounds like "Violently Explodes" to me. *shrug*

Yes, if you throw it into a blast furnace. Not if a chip that turns it on and off shorts out.

Death is a descriptive. Nothing More.

"Your character.. dies."
"But death is only a descriptive, so I'm going to keep doing stuff!"

You should read it again... Important Parts highlighted.

Neural Boosters throughout the body. What happens when all your Neural Boosters, throughout your body and tied into your CNS, all of a sudden combust? Oh wait... Death.

And we're back to every bit of every piece of cyberware being made out of C4.. because you say so.

No, not because I say so, because the DEVELOPERS SAY SO. Again, read what they wrote...

You know what they don't say? That bricked cyberware explodes in your body and turns you into a fine paste.

So, regardless of how they were designed, devices that are bricked NEVER Fail in a non-spectacular way. So, no, cyberware does not fail non-spectacularly, PER THE DEVELOPERS OWN WORDS.

How many of those words say that cyberware explodes and kills you? None? Hmm.

And again your statements are ludicrous. Never did I say such things. What I did say is that when hardware in your body burns, you burn along with it. NEVER will it be non-damaging, as you contend. Simple Common Sense.

Except there's no hint of a system to determine how much damage or any side-effects, which must mean you're overreacting.

[Tanegar]

How many of those words say that cyberware explodes and kills you? None? Hmm.

How many of those words say that cyberware reaches temperatures high enough to cook you alive? All of them? Hmm.

Face it, you haven't got a leg to stand on. A chip in your head melts, your brain broils in its own fluids, you die. A-B-C.

[Smash]

I think it has more to do with the Hollywood film effect. Just because a terminal explodes in front of the Hollywood Hacker, doesn't mean the Hacker dies. It just looks cool. And just because your head commlink just exploded doesn't mean your now brain dead, but it does mean you can't use that ware anymore. In the case of a bricked device, it is merely a cinematic way to display that you will not be using that piece of tech.

Shadowrun has always leaned more on the Hollywood side of reality. Why should bricking be any different?

100% agree. Your device ceases to function and you know that it has.

There are no rules besides essence holes to account for destroyed or removed cyberware. For example, if we take the nervous system fluff completely literally then you probably couldn't replace standard wired reflexed with delta-ware wired reflexes because the sections that are removed are probably of different size to the sections removed by the deltaware equivalent.

Why does a deltaware cyberarm cost less essence than a standardware cyberarm? It still replaces your whole arm! Then again, if I really wanted to I can justify it a multitude of ways. The point is that fluff is fluff, it just gives guideance for the roleplaying side of the game. That's why using realism to debate most points is mostly pointless.

[RHat]

I agree it should never have been written. I do not agree that it should not have a say in what happens when an item is bricked, since what was written was EXACTLY what was intended to happen when an item is bricked. Its very existence informs the mechanics. And some things do not need mechanics. The effect of melting and burning Cyberware is one of them, since it WILL kill the person so afflicted.

First, it doesn't get to change the mechanics, PERIOD. Second, that is what happens when SOME items are bricked. Not when ALL times are bricked. What makes you so certain that 'ware fails in that manner? Any reasonable design for something like Wired Reflexes would include something to protect the user in case of catastrophic failure, similar in principle to a surge protector or to the shear pin on a boat motor - a part that needs to be replaced before you can use the item again, but that prevents a far, far, far more serious failure. It might smell like burnt silicon (which is not a good smell, let me tell you), you might feel the pop or hear the bang (and it would certainly be UNCOMFORTABLE) and so on, but more catastrophic failure like a freaking fire has been prevented. Hell, depending on how the failure occurs, this might be localized to a specific site that is near the skin, allowing for easy access and repair without requiring full surgery. Likely in the same place as a physical on/off switch and possible a physical wireless toggle might be.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

First, it doesn't get to change the mechanics, PERIOD. Second, that is what happens when SOME items are bricked. Not when ALL times are bricked. What makes you so certain that 'ware fails in that manner? Any reasonable design for something like Wired Reflexes would include something to protect the user in case of catastrophic failure, similar in principle to a surge protector or to the shear pin on a boat motor - a part that needs to be replaced before you can use the item again, but that prevents a far, far, far more serious failure. It might smell like burnt silicon (which is not a good smell, let me tell you), you might feel the pop or hear the bang (and it would certainly be UNCOMFORTABLE) and so on, but more catastrophic failure like a freaking fire has been prevented. Hell, depending on how the failure occurs, this might be localized to a specific site that is near the skin, allowing for easy access and repair without requiring full surgery. Likely in the same place as a physical on/off switch and possible a physical wireless toggle might be.

Laughable... Would not a Cyberdeck also employ such a surge protection device? Again, the Mechanics you are so proud of do not synch with the Fluff. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. When all else fails, the Fluff is more true to the world than the mechanics are, and indicate what the world actually looks like. And where, pray tell, is this physical wireless switch located? And WHY is it near the skin? Looks to me like you are inventing things of your own, things that even the Fluff does not describe. You cannot have your cake and eat it too... Either the fluff is meaningless and should be ignored, or it informs the way the world works and should be paramount. It cannot be both.

As someone asked earlier... Do you argue from a Simulationist or a Gamist perspective? One is Fluff and the Other is Mechanics. You cannot tell me that having burning bits of electronics in your body cavity is a non-damaging effect. That is so completely ludicrous a position that I assume that even you do not believe it.

So, it comes down to how you read the book. On one hand, it burns, sparks, pops, smells funny and whatnot (per the developers description), and there is absolutely no effect whatsoever other than that. Or it has the listed descriptive effects, and has a commensurate deleterious effect on the structure to which it is attached. For most hardware, this is of very little consequence. For Cyberware, however, this deleterious effect causes harm to the organism to which it is attached. In many cases, this effect would result in death or serious bodily harm.

[Tanegar]

First, it doesn't get to change the mechanics, PERIOD. Second, that is what happens when SOME items are bricked. Not when ALL times are bricked. What makes you so certain that 'ware fails in that manner? Any reasonable design for something like Wired Reflexes would include something to protect the user in case of catastrophic failure, similar in principle to a surge protector or to the shear pin on a boat motor - a part that needs to be replaced before you can use the item again, but that prevents a far, far, far more serious failure. It might smell like burnt silicon (which is not a good smell, let me tell you), you might feel the pop or hear the bang (and it would certainly be UNCOMFORTABLE) and so on, but more catastrophic failure like a freaking fire has been prevented. Hell, depending on how the failure occurs, this might be localized to a specific site that is near the skin, allowing for easy access and repair without requiring full surgery. Likely in the same place as a physical on/off switch and possible a physical wireless toggle might be.

Are... are you trolling, now? You must be trolling. Your point flies squarely in the face of the given description, which states (as if it hasn't been quoted enough that we all know it by heart):

Devices that are bricked never fail non-spectacularly. Smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles, nasty smells, and occasionally even small fires are common features of a device in the process of becoming a brick.

It doesn't say, "some devices," or "a few devices," or anything else along those lines. It says, "devices;" implicitly, all devices. What makes us so certain that 'ware fails in this manner? The book says so. It says so explicitly:

Devices that are bricked never fail non-spectacularly. Smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles, nasty smells, and occasionally even small fires are common features of a device in the process of becoming a brick.

Your postulation of reasonable design features shows you have a good handle on basic design philosophy... and is flatly contradicted by the book:

Devices that are bricked never fail non-spectacularly. Smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles, nasty smells, and occasionally even small fires are common features of a device in the process of becoming a brick.

All devices, when bricked, fail in the manner described, precluding the existence of any of those perfectly reasonable precautions. Once again, bricking cyberware relies on the assumption that the Sixth World is populated exclusively by people who are stupid and bad at their jobs, which in turn directly contradicts 20+ years of prior characterization.

This does not make sense. There is no rationalization you can apply which will cause it to make sense.

[DMiller]

Laughable... Would not a Cyberdeck also employ such a surge protection device? Again, the Mechanics you are so proud of do not synch with the Fluff. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. When all else fails, the Fluff is more true to the world than the mechanics are, and indicate what the world actually looks like. And where, pray tell, is this physical wireless switch located? And WHY is it near the skin? Looks to me like you are inventing things of your own, things that even the Fluff does not describe. You cannot have your cake and eat it too... Either the fluff is meaningless and should be ignored, or it informs the way the world works and should be paramount. It cannot be both.

As someone asked earlier... Do you argue from a Simulationist or a Gamist perspective? One is Fluff and the Other is Mechanics. You cannot tell me that having burning bits of electronics in your body cavity is a non-damaging effect. That is so completely ludicrous a position that I assume that even you do not believe it.

So, it comes down to how you read the book. On one hand, it burns, sparks, pops, smells funny and whatnot (per the developers description), and there is absolutely no effect whatsoever other than that. Or it has the listed descriptive effects, and has a commensurate deleterious effect on the structure to which it is attached. For most hardware, this is of very little consequence. For Cyberware, however, this deleterious effect causes harm to the organism to which it is attached. In many cases, this effect would result in death or serious bodily harm.

As a House Rule, we changed the fluff. We removed the popping, smoking and burning and replaced it with a firmware damage. This falls in line with the mechanical description and also explains why it doesn't cost money in replacement parts to repair. You have to correct or rebuild the damaged firmware (thus using Hardware rather than Software skill, though software skill would be more appropriate we didn't want to change the mechanics of the game in this respect).

[RHat]

Laughable... Would not a Cyberdeck also employ such a surge protection device? Again, the Mechanics you are so proud of do not synch with the Fluff. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. When all else fails, the Fluff is more true to the world than the mechanics are, and indicate what the world actually looks like. And where, pray tell, is this physical wireless switch located? And WHY is it near the skin? Looks to me like you are inventing things of your own, things that even the Fluff does not describe. You cannot have your cake and eat it too... Either the fluff is meaningless and should be ignored, or it informs the way the world works and should be paramount. It cannot be both.

As someone asked earlier... Do you argue from a Simulationist or a Gamist perspective? One is Fluff and the Other is Mechanics. You cannot tell me that having burning bits of electronics in your body cavity is a non-damaging effect. That is so completely ludicrous a position that I assume that even you do not believe it.

So, it comes down to how you read the book. On one hand, it burns, sparks, pops, smells funny and whatnot (per the developers description), and there is absolutely no effect whatsoever other than that. Or it has the listed descriptive effects, and has a commensurate deleterious effect on the structure to which it is attached. For most hardware, this is of very little consequence. For Cyberware, however, this deleterious effect causes harm to the organism to which it is attached. In many cases, this effect would result in death or serious bodily harm.

A cyberdeck might just have that (any time the combination of likelihood of such failure and severity of such failure is high enough, such a thing should be there). Fluff does not create mechanics, PERIOD. Physical switches were a thing in SR4, and they would HAVE to be near the skin because you're supposed to hit them with your damn hand.

In any case, I'm disappointed that you can't see the false dichotomy you're presenting. It's not "either fluff is meaningless or it informs the way the world works" - simply put, fluff informs the way the world works but it does not have primacy over mechanics, and thus where they conflict mechanics take precedent (and a mistake has been made).

In any case, I'm telling you that burning bits of electronics may happen for things outside of the body, but it doesn't happen for things inside the body.

And no, it doesn't come down to how you read the book - it comes down to reading a passage to say something it doesn't. That passage says that those things are possible, not that they are what happens in all cases. Why MUST 'ware be a case where things like burning happen?

[Dolanar]

No one is suggesting it is only ware, its just that a bricked gun that sizzles can be dropped as a basic necessity, the passage in question says that it ALWAYS fails spectacularly, I expect guns to sizzle & crackle, minor explosions here & there depending on what is bricked. I guess it depends on what a Spectacular fail is to each person.

[mrslamm0]

As a House Rule, we changed the fluff. We removed the popping, smoking and burning and replaced it with a firmware damage. This falls in line with the mechanical description and also explains why it doesn't cost money in replacement parts to repair. You have to correct or rebuild the damaged firmware (thus using Hardware rather than Software skill, though software skill would be more appropriate we didn't want to change the mechanics of the game in this respect).

Yeah that's how I will run it if my group goes the 5th ed route. I was listening to the critical glitch pod cast on the matrix the other day and they were talking about hacking cyberware. Pretty much from what I understand as they explain it its the Decker going in and messing with the firmware/OS of the system and turning off the bonuses so it doesn't know how to properly operate. As this has been thrown around I think it comes down to poor wording and such, they could of left out the small fires and sparks bit.

[RHat]

No one is suggesting it is only ware, its just that a bricked gun that sizzles can be dropped as a basic necessity, the passage in question says that it ALWAYS fails spectacularly, I expect guns to sizzle & crackle, minor explosions here & there depending on what is bricked. I guess it depends on what a Spectacular fail is to each person.

But to be clear, what it doesn't say is that all of those things happen all of the time. That the more problematic things don't happen for ware is reasonable to say, and in the fact that there are no rules for such things points to that as well.

[Dolanar]

with no concrete rules there is NO WAY to to determine what happens, just that ANY & ALL devices that get bricked, fail spectacularly, this is ultimately GM Fiat. No one is wrong, no one is right, hence why I said upthread that until the writer or a proxy for that writer tells us their intent it is more or less pointless to argue or discuss it, everyone should do what they want, whatever makes their game run best for their table. I just personally think with such a glaring contradiction someone should come & Dispel this problem (even an unofficial, official errata by the writer would be nice)

[RHat]

with no concrete rules there is NO WAY to to determine what happens, just that ANY & ALL devices that get bricked, fail spectacularly, this is ultimately GM Fiat. No one is wrong, no one is right, hence why I said upthread that until the writer or a proxy for that writer tells us their intent it is more or less pointless to argue or discuss it, everyone should do what they want, whatever makes their game run best for their table. I just personally think with such a glaring contradiction someone should come & Dispel this problem (even an unofficial, official errata by the writer would be nice)

Fair, but I'll just say that intentionally resolving a grey area in a way you think is terrible makes absolutely no sense.

[mister__joshua]

Actually what it says is: "Smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles, nasty smells, and occasionally even small fires are common features of a device in the process of becoming a brick."

I just wanted to pick up on this post because it has been quoted as 'small fires are common', where as in context it actually says smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles and nasty smells are common, while small fires are occasional. The quote should be read as "These effects (Smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles, nasty smells, and occasionally even small fires) are common features of a device in the process of becoming a brick."


Also, common sense has been mentioned a lot in this thread, but not a lot has been applied. As someone who works in IT I have seen more than my fair share of bricked devices. Laptops, desktops, projectors, phones. I have a bunch in my office right now. In all my life I've only ever seen one device that had the risk of a small fire, and that was when the power controller on a motherboard broke and cooked the GPU. THAT smoked, smelled and would have started to burn if we hadn't switched it off. Most bricked computers just plain don't turn on anymore, or don't put out a picture. Projectors (devices that run hot, and require a lot of cooling) almost always start to smell but are designed to turn off if they overheat. I'd imagine internal cyberware doesn't run hot, as their isn't a lot of cooling available.

Needless to say, no device I have worked with has ever exploded.

[Chinane]

I just wanted to pick up on this post because it has been quoted as 'small fires are common', where as in context it actually says smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles and nasty smells are common, while small fires are occasional. The quote should be read as "These effects (Smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles, nasty smells, and occasionally even small fires) are common features of a device in the process of becoming a brick."

Thanks for putting a bit of reason back into this thread.

I'm definitely NOT happy with the bricking rules and personally would prefer the default outcome a number of fuses needing replacement (which could even be an incentive to learn cybertechnology in order to self repair in the field) and RARELY serious hardware damage (basically for stuff where a surge protection is not reasonable, be it due to cost or miniaturization requirements). The 'spectacular effect' for my wired reflexes shutting down could be a blinky system alert in my image link, similar to what my car does when it demands i take it to maintenance.

The life threatening consequences projected here are IMO way too far reaching, EVEN for the poor implementation in RAW. Unless of course, the piece of 'ware being bricked is specifically keeping you alive, for example a pacemaker.

EDIT:
Regardless of the question if bricking could be salvaged into a workable rule, I still maintain that the vast majority of wireless bonuses/requirements are absolute crap, especially for cyberware.