[X] My Assistant

[DMiller]

Meh, I never really liked the idea of ED and SR being cross-over worlds anyway. I could see the similarities, but looking at my ED book, the ED world is about 10 times larger than the Earth anyway (maybe more).

[nezumi]

That's because the FASA universe follows the expanding earth hypothesis (except in reverse).

[Sengir]

ED was at the start of the 4th, but the mana levels stopped dropping.

Which makes me wonder how it would the 4th age, if 5th was the downcycle. Maybe ED is more properly at the end of the 4th.

ED is set in the latter half of the 4th World. Think of mana levels as a sine wave, every zero crossing is the threshold between two ages, and every maximum means Horror time.

AFAIK Earthfall (Earthfell?) is to be set at roughly the same point in the 6th World, in other words far away from anything SR

[Sendaz]

That's because the FASA universe follows the expanding earth hypothesis (except in reverse).

Tell me the truth now, does this equator make me look fat? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Always Overkill]

Wow, I almost forgot about Battletech, and its companion RPG MechWarrior.

Its a tough question, I loved FASA back in its heyday; they produced some amazing settings that led to some truly unique RP opportunities. I am really unsure as to what exactly brought FASA down. I know there have been publishing
companies that near bankrupted themselves during the development of just the core books of some new RPGs. Maybe FASA overextended itself trying to get 3rd ed out to the wider gaming world. I would like to see them back with a hand in
the new SR, but I'm not sure if it would be doing much better than Catalyst.

Honestly, I think Catalyst should have taken the opportunity to design a more user-friendly system for SR. Having played a host of different tabletop RPGs over the past 18 years, there are few systems that have as high a level difficulty for new
players to learn. (With the exception of the GURPS.)

Don't get me wrong, I have a strong love of SR, the setting and even the system. I appreciate the work FASA did to develop intricate and unique systems for things like decking, rigging, and magic. But it is not a game I would recommend to
anyone new to tabletop RPGs. Just character creation can be a bit daunting for those not used to them.

I think it would have been wise of them to take advantage of the fact that your average gamer has access to far more polyhedrons than just a d6. They have d4s, d8s, d10s, d12s, d20s, percentile dice; options that could bring a much greater
number of variables than a d6, that also wouldn't necessitate adding more and more d6s for higher levels of skills and powers. But its also hard to change the fundamentals of a game system that has been around for so long without somewhat
alienating old school players.

Just a critique. Curious as to what some of the SR vets have say on the point.

[nezumi]

SR2 is what I learned RPGs on (and in fact, what I learned RPGs are on). I didn't have too much trouble (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Yes, it's far more complex than most games, but it's written such that you can only learn one piece at a time if you like.

As for the dice, a d20 system has a flat probability curve and the variability is awful. The SR d6 system not using other dice isn't a flaw, it's an intentional design feature. It gives skilled characters dependability and unskilled characters variability, and provides it in a way that I've not seen any other game come close to. I'd be happy to pull it apart and go into details, but most people don't care for probability mappings. Suffice to say, from a mathematical viewpoint, the all d6 system is 'very good'.

[Always Overkill]

Interesting points on the d6 vs. the d20 systems; I am surprised to learn about the probability curve being higher on the
d6; seems like the d20 would have more variability with all the situational modifiers that can be put in to the equation.
But I will take your word for it; no need to break out the tables, as fun as that sounds.

Thanks for the friendly conjecture on the subject.

[Ryu]

There is ED-crossover stuff I would have liked to see (and do provide for my group because they agree), but any hope of a clear line of "official" history is gone since Clutch of Dragons at the latest. Besides not being sure nuFASA would be an improvement.

[Wounded Ronin]

SR 2 and 3 game engine felt a lot more true to life than D20 systems.

The only game system that seemed more hardcore in trying to be ultra realistic was Phoenix Command.

SR2 is what I learned RPGs on (and in fact, what I learned RPGs are on). I didn't have too much trouble (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Yes, it's far more complex than most games, but it's written such that you can only learn one piece at a time if you like.

As for the dice, a d20 system has a flat probability curve and the variability is awful. The SR d6 system not using other dice isn't a flaw, it's an intentional design feature. It gives skilled characters dependability and unskilled characters variability, and provides it in a way that I've not seen any other game come close to. I'd be happy to pull it apart and go into details, but most people don't care for probability mappings. Suffice to say, from a mathematical viewpoint, the all d6 system is 'very good'.

[Adam]

Its a tough question, I loved FASA back in its heyday; they produced some amazing settings that led to some truly unique RP opportunities. I am really unsure as to what exactly brought FASA down. I know there have been publishing
companies that near bankrupted themselves during the development of just the core books of some new RPGs. Maybe FASA overextended itself trying to get 3rd ed out to the wider gaming world.

FASA actually overextended themselves on other projects: acquiring Ral Partha, then the miniatures game Vor and Crucible, neither of which had much chance to get legs. Plus the failed merger with Decipher. In their last few years, Shadowrun was the main earner for FASA.

[Always Overkill]

SR 2 and 3 game engine felt a lot more true to life than D20 systems.

Yeah I agree completely there, the d20 was never really designed for ultra-realism, more for the ease of learning and a slightly quicker game pace.

Although they did release a d20 A Game of Thrones RPG that added a lot of realism and an unforgiving combat system where your characters survival was in doubt whenever
they drew their swords. It was a nice adaptation for a fantasy world that thrives on its brutal realism. It forms a nice bridge between the grittiness of some RPG systems
without losing the ease of play, (it sure kept you on your toes though!)

Since it is surprisingly appropriate for this part of the discussion; this very same RPG, A Game of Thrones d20, pretty much broke the back of the publishing company
Guardians of Order. The White Wolf subsidiary, Swords and Sorcery, was forced to come in and help them finish the core book and get it published. Guardians of Order had
bitten off far more than they can chew. It is a massive book (even thicker than the SR 5th ed Corebook,) just filled to the brim with the backgrounds and histories of
Westeros. It was actually a pretty good adaptation that does make you feel as though you are in the Seven Kingdoms. I would recommend it to anyone thinking of running a
game in that particular setting.

[tete]

@Wounded Ronin: I actually think that Shadowrun needs to be split into three universes: Shadowrun 2035 (for those who want to play "contemporary technothriller with magic and ware"), Shadowrun 2050 (for those who want to play "80s cyberpunk") and Shadowrun 2070 (for those who prefer post-cyberpunk / early transhumanism).

They could share the same base rules, but each would have its own quirks so that both rules and settings could completely fit the expectations, and so that writers could write the Shadowrun they like. It would be better than having each writer trying to pull Shadowrun towards what he wants the game to be, and ending up with a weird mix that doesn't completely please anyone.

OMG this!

[Prime Mover]

Nu/Fasa pretty much fasa in name only. Makes me feel like the poll needs an edit.

[DMiller]

Nu/Fasa pretty much fasa in name only. Makes me feel like the poll needs an edit.

FINO?