SRV, V stands for Verisimilitude Options

[Backgammon]

and decided that what you wanted most of all was a minimum of complaint on Dumpshock about the plausibility of the ruleset.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Mach_Ten]

what you wanted most of all was a minimum of complaint on Dumpshock

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Q.E.D

[binarywraith]

Except that they have nothing to do with Magic.

Except the part where their abilities are physically impossible unless they're magic, given the physics and metaphysics of the setting.

This is the 'V' portion of the thread title. If you can't explain something in a way that makes sense in the context of the setting, then it breaks suspension of disbelief.

I'm still on a grail-quest to figure out a way to make a non-game-breaking version of some kind of Emergence-type character that doesn't suffer Res loss when getting cyber. It just seems so...perfectly fitting. Someone who interacts with tech on a much deeper level than normal people should be able to interact with tech in their own bodies the same or better as well.

AI with a body made of a neural network running inside of a floating nanite cloud ala Transmetropolitian. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But that's getting really transhumanist and a long ways from cyberpunk's roots, or anything that's remotely like the setting.

[Mach_Ten]

AI with a body made of a neural network running inside of a floating nanite cloud ala Transmetropolitian. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But that's getting really transhumanist and a long ways from cyberpunk's roots, or anything that's remotely like the setting.

So, no one ever played CYBERMAGE ?

the reason I spent a fortune in pocket money to upgrade my first PC's VRAM to 8MB !!

[Sendaz]

I'm still on a grail-quest to figure out a way to make a non-game-breaking version of some kind of Emergence-type character that doesn't suffer Res loss when getting cyber. It just seems so...perfectly fitting. Someone who interacts with tech on a much deeper level than normal people should be able to interact with tech in their own bodies the same or better as well.

I would not take away Res loss for essence loss completely, you are afterall a biological machine losing chunks of your system for artificial bits. Yes the artificial bits sort of mesh with your abilities but not completely.

I would maybe consider reducing the Res loss for Ess by half so you could take up to 2 Ess in gear and still only suffer 1 Res loss.

Course then you would get some scary Cyborg style TM's who are literally man&machine combined and might probably outcyber a Street Sammy in gear so that may not be the wisest course.

Unless you want a StreetSammy/TM combo wrecking havoc online and in the real world, neon pink Mohawk style.

[Draco18s]

I think the better solution is to have specific essence cost reductions.
"Sure you can get Enhanced Ephacedronadhfsidjf* for half essence, that makes sense. But no, you cannot have a cyberarm with a shotgun in it."

*I actually don't know how to spell this word.

[RHat]

Except the part where their abilities are physically impossible unless they're magic, given the physics and metaphysics of the setting.

This is the 'V' portion of the thread title. If you can't explain something in a way that makes sense in the context of the setting, then it breaks suspension of disbelief.

That there is presently no explanation offered does not mean there cannot be one. That said, I need to clarify: Are you talking about Magic, as a proper noun referring to the source for Awakened abilities, or magic, as a normal noun referring to the fact that we don't really know how it works? Because if it's the former, your argument doesn't work - but it needs to be the former for Magic/tech incompatibility to be relevant.

[Remnar]

Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't currently know why TM's tick? Right?

So it is entirely plausable that somewhere down the line the Dev's will release a splat that says "yeah, actually TM's were Magic the whole time, just twisted by some cyber-thing-a-magigger (Deus probably) so, yeah, TMs are Mages."

Pseudo-techno-toxic shamans.

Unlikely but lets not make assumptions while telling others not to make assumptions.

[RHat]

Pretty much one of the only things we know is that they're not Magic. They don't show up as Awakened in any way, Resonance and Magic are entirely incompatible, and so on.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Course then you would get some scary Cyborg style TM's who are literally man&machine combined and might probably outcyber a Street Sammy in gear so that may not be the wisest course.

Unless you want a StreetSammy/TM combo wrecking havoc online and in the real world, neon pink Mohawk style.

Sounds a lot like an episode of Babylon 5 I watched.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Pretty much one of the only things we know is that they're not Magic. They don't show up as Awakened in any way, Resonance and Magic are entirely incompatible, and so on.

Indeed... It is hard to get around that particular factoid. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Remnar]

Pretty much one of the only things we know is that they're not Magic. They don't show up as Awakened in any way, Resonance and Magic are entirely incompatible, and so on.

Ah, right, forgot about that. Well then, you're correct.

Unless they all have really, really high natural masking.

Crap, maybe all Technomancers are really Great Dragons in disguise!

[Draco18s]

Crap, maybe all Technomancers are really Great Dragons in disguise!

Ack! They're on to me!

[Draco18s]

Sensors should get 6 + 2*Rating in dice to perceive stuff. Highly specialized sensors ("Heat sensor" or "motion sensor" but not "microphone" or "camera") count as having a specialization in whatever they pick up.

It makes no sense that a rating 1 sensor will critically fail its perception check 17% of the time.

[Tanegar]

Sensors should get 6 + 2*Rating in dice to perceive stuff. Highly specialized sensors ("Heat sensor" or "motion sensor" but not "microphone" or "camera") count as having a specialization in whatever they pick up.

It makes no sense that a rating 1 sensor will critically fail its perception check 17% of the time.

In that vein, watcher spirits always count as "actively looking" (+4 Perception dice). Still not difficult to evade, but at least now their average hits is greater than 1.

[Draco18s]

In that vein, watcher spirits always count as "actively looking" (+4 Perception dice). Still not difficult to evade, but at least now their average hits is greater than 1.

Actually I'd like to take Watcher spirits back to 3rd edition. They had a unique power that no other spirit got and was guaranteed to find the target (the harder they were to find, the longer it took, it was merely a matter of "did you summon the spirit for long enough?"). Other spirits had a different power that could eventually fail.

[Koekepan]

I tend to agree that technomancers fail the verisimilitude test. Somehow their bodies are protocol-compliant communications relays? I don't buy that.

The expressions of their abilities are also a little too unlike the way computers work, even for the Matrix, so I think it is a bad rule fit as well.

[binarywraith]

That there is presently no explanation offered does not mean there cannot be one. That said, I need to clarify: Are you talking about Magic, as a proper noun referring to the source for Awakened abilities, or magic, as a normal noun referring to the fact that we don't really know how it works? Because if it's the former, your argument doesn't work - but it needs to be the former for Magic/tech incompatibility to be relevant.

That there has been no explanation of how Otaku/TMs work that fits in-universe without being magic in the barely under 20 years since they showed up in the Denver boxed set followed by VR2.0 says that if there is one, several sets of very talented developers and writers couldn't come up with it. That leans me towards there not being any such answer given the constraints of the setting.

[Nath]

Well, to put it another way, technomancers are "magic", just not "astral magic".

[Epicedion]

That there has been no explanation of how Otaku/TMs work that fits in-universe without being magic in the barely under 20 years since they showed up in the Denver boxed set followed by VR2.0 says that if there is one, several sets of very talented developers and writers couldn't come up with it. That leans me towards there not being any such answer given the constraints of the setting.

Otaku were more sci-fi, while technomancers are more nascent techno-magic fusion.

I would've really dug it if they either went back down the sci-fi otaku path, or gone whole-hog technomagic and been able to conjure Matrix into meatspace, instead of riding the line of magic-but-only-online.

[Koekepan]

Otaku were more sci-fi, while technomancers are more nascent techno-magic fusion.

I would've really dug it if they either went back down the sci-fi otaku path, or gone whole-hog technomagic and been able to conjure Matrix into meatspace, instead of riding the line of magic-but-only-online.

Cool? Sure. But low on verisimilitude. A ferrari-made pegacorn in fire engine red might be cool, too, but...

I think that at heart, Shadowrun asks the question of, what would happen if technology developed, along some broadly cyberpunk-predicted lines, but magic came back in a cyclic universe? Nothing about that suggests that technomagic would be simple, easy or inherent.

[Tanegar]

A ferrari-made pegacorn in fire engine red might be cool, too, but...

<brony>Alicorn. The word you're looking for is, "alicorn."</brony>

[Koekepan]

<brony>Alicorn. The word you're looking for is, "alicorn."</brony>

I assure you that my point's validity is untouched by the terminology.

Also, I'm burning this monitor to avoid infection.

[Tanegar]

Join the Herd, Koekepan. We'll take good care of you.

[Koekepan]

Join the Herd, Koekepan. We'll take good care of you.

... said he to the guy who started the topic on Redneck Runs.

"Saddle up, boys. Getcher ropes an' brandin' irons. There's a wild herd on the ranges."