AR Rigging, How does it work? Options

[Ard3]

I am trying to wrap my head around AR Rigging and I need some clarifications. In many places it say X happens when drone is acting individually or Y when jumped in.

If I use Control Device actions to make drones to do something it happens immediately on my turn. Do they then get their own iniatitives to act or not?

Control Device can be used to control multiple devices if the order is the same. So if I have lets say 4 drones each equipped with gun and roll any amount of successes they all use that roll. So target has to defend against 4 attacks, with -1 per attack after the first. This seems really strong.

How many programs can RCCs run? Sharing is capped at device rating but how about other programs.

Running Silent with drones. Either I use RCC and be bad since no Sleaze attribute or use deck and gain no RCC benefits.
Or does this work: Drones use Silent Running while slaved to RCC that does not. RCC isn't Running Silent so no penalty, drones don't do Matrix actions so no penalty.

Vulcan Liegelord vs Proteus Poseidon. Same stats, Liegelord is both cheaper and has lower availability. Is there any reason to pick Poseidon?

Codeslinger(Control Device) seems like a almost must have for any non-jumped in rigger.

For "Eye in the sky" drone I can just buy regular camera upgrades for camera in its sensor suite right?

That drone or jumped in rigger using Perception is limited by its Sensors but using Control Device is not? Because as per Control Device description "All actions you take while controlling a device use either the normal limit for that action or Data Processing rating, whichever is lower." Normal limit for Perception is characters mental limit.

It seems that in combat I can either use cheap drones, preferably from far away and accept that there will be losses quite often or use Steel Lynxes and stick out like a sore thumb everywhere.

Finally a challenge: Adept Ork Rigger. Is it doable in SR5?
This far I've had problems trying to do anything not human, not stereotypic one trick pony with priority system.

[Sengir]

If I use Control Device actions to make drones to do something it happens immediately on my turn. Do they then get their own iniatitives to act or not?

P. 265, Once a device’s control is overridden[and Control Device overrides the autopilot], it cannot be controlled by a method equal to or lower than it in the order until the Initiative Pass after the current controller relinquishes control (voluntarily ... or not).

Control Device can be used to control multiple devices if the order is the same. So if I have lets say 4 drones each equipped with gun and roll any amount of successes they all use that roll. So target has to defend against 4 attacks, with -1 per attack after the first. This seems really strong.

Yep, perfectly legal.

How many programs can RCCs run? Sharing is capped at device rating but how about other programs.

German edition says program limit = device rating

Or does this work: Drones use Silent Running while slaved to RCC that does not. RCC isn't Running Silent so no penalty, drones don't do Matrix actions so no penalty.

Slaved devices can run silent themselves, no problem.

For "Eye in the sky" drone I can just buy regular camera upgrades for camera in its sensor suite right?

Yes, although the rules for sensor capacities and what sensors are in a drone by default are vague as ever (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That drone or jumped in rigger using Perception is limited by its Sensors but using Control Device is not? Because as per Control Device description "All actions you take while controlling a device use either the normal limit for that action or Data Processing rating, whichever is lower." Normal limit for Perception is characters mental limit.

I'd say the "normal limit" in this case is quite obviously Sensor, since that is the limit when you normally use sensors...

It seems that in combat I can either use cheap drones, preferably from far away and accept that there will be losses quite often or use Steel Lynxes and stick out like a sore thumb everywhere.

That's why I always liked Dobermans, they are effective (or at least were, didn't test them yet in 5th) but a lot less obvious than the big combat drones

[mister__joshua]

Control Device can be used to control multiple devices if the order is the same. So if I have lets say 4 drones each equipped with gun and roll any amount of successes they all use that roll. So target has to defend against 4 attacks, with -1 per attack after the first. This seems really strong.

Yep, perfectly legal.

While it's legal to have 4 drones and issue an attack order to them all as one action, I'm pretty sure you'd roll 4 separate attack rolls.

[DWC]

I'd keep your drones cheap and lightly armed. Don't forget that the mighty Steel Lynx only has 12 armor and a 6 Body, so it is stuck with a damage track of only 9 boxes. If drones got damage tracks like vehicles, the Steel Lynx would be a beast, but they don't, so a burst or two of AR fire is going to shred your drones pretty effortlessly.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'd keep your drones cheap and lightly armed. Don't forget that the mighty Steel Lynx only has 12 armor and a 6 Body, so it is stuck with a damage track of only 9 boxes. If drones got damage tracks like vehicles, the Steel Lynx would be a beast, but they don't, so a burst or two of AR fire is going to shred your drones pretty effortlessly.

Would that not be a Track of 11 Boxes (8+(Body/2))? 8+3=11. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DWC]

Drones only get 6 plus half their body as their physical damage track.

[Sengir]

While it's legal to have 4 drones and issue an attack order to them all as one action, I'm pretty sure you'd roll 4 separate attack rolls.

You can use this action to control multiple devices at once. If you are the owner of all devices being commanded and they are all being commanded to do exactly the same thing, taking this action costs nothing extra. Otherwise, you must split your dice pool

You might argue that firing from different positions is not "exactly the same thing". However, I cannot think of anything which would not require a DP split when applying such a strict standard, which does not seem to be the intention -- if it was, they'd simply have written "split your DP among the drones, no exceptions".

[mister__joshua]

You can use this action to control multiple devices at once. If you are the owner of all devices being commanded and they are all being commanded to do exactly the same thing, taking this action costs nothing extra. Otherwise, you must split your dice pool

You might argue that firing from different positions is not "exactly the same thing". However, I cannot think of anything which would not require a DP split when applying such a strict standard, which does not seem to be the intention -- if it was, they'd simply have written "split your DP among the drones, no exceptions".

You misunderstand, I wasn't saying you should split your dice pool. Just that you should actually roll the dice 4 times. If the opponent is making 4 reaction rolls at -1, -2 etc you should be making 4 separate attack rolls. All the drones aren't going to hit in exactly the same place. The drones may not even have the same sized dice pool, or the same limits. The OP said roll and use the number of successes for all the shots. I don't think that's how it works.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Drones only get 6 plus half their body as their physical damage track.

Well, that sucks...

[Ard3]

German edition says program limit = device rating.

Ok, makes sense. If I am remote controlling autosofts dont really matter do they?

Yes, although the rules for sensor capacities and what sensors are in a drone by default are vague as ever (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yeah. And uppgrading them looks really costly. 3 is default on all drones, upping that to 4(max for medium sized) costs 4000. So only for drones far away from action, since they dont (hopefully) need to be fixed/replaced regularry.

I'd say the "normal limit" in this case is quite obviously Sensor, since that is the limit when you normally use sensors...

That would make sense, but is bit unclear. Makes detecting anything actively trying to hide difficult with default rating of 3. Only dedicated, sensor upgraded surveillance drone can find well hidden stuff. Unless edge is used.

That's why I always liked Dobermans, they are effective (or at least were, didn't test them yet in 5th) but a lot less obvious than the big combat drones.

With body and armor of 4 they dont last long, but have benefit of having weapon mount as standard. Slap a cheap gun on it and you have cheap combat unit. I would prefer rotordrones with silenced sniper rifles when ever possible. Much less likely to get hit.

While it's legal to have 4 drones and issue an attack order to them all as one action, I'm pretty sure you'd roll 4 separate attack rolls.

Bit unclear to me, but would make sense. Each of them can have different modifiers to shoot so separate rolls is clearer.
Also prevents using Edge to and cadre of drones from killing anything with one roll.

Well, that sucks...

Yes it does. You kinda need to dodge like crazy, have high armor and hope for the best or make sure enemy can't fire back.

Some more:

In vehicle combat section it says +1 to vehicle test when pilot is using AR. Does this apply to drones? I am not sure do drones count as vehicles or not.

I am using remote control on drone. It gets ahot at. What is rolled as defence? Reaction + Intuition as per vehicle rules, Pilot + Autosoft(Handling) as per drone rules or something else. What autosof would that be since it doesnt say?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Some more:

In vehicle combat section it says +1 to vehicle test when pilot is using AR. Does this apply to drones? I am not sure do drones count as vehicles or not.

All drones are vehicles, but not all vehicles are drones. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[mister__joshua]

All drones are vehicles, but not all vehicles are drones. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That's deep man. Are some Drones more Vehicle than others? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That's deep man. Are some Drones more Vehicle than others? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Some Drones are definitely more Vehicle than others... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I'd take a Drone M1 Abrahms anyday... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Sengir]

You misunderstand, I wasn't saying you should split your dice pool. Just that you should actually roll the dice 4 times. If the opponent is making 4 reaction rolls at -1, -2 etc you should be making 4 separate attack rolls. All the drones aren't going to hit in exactly the same place. The drones may not even have the same sized dice pool, or the same limits. The OP said roll and use the number of successes for all the shots. I don't think that's how it works.

By RAW it is, or at least there is nothing saying you have to roll more than once. Though I agree rolling separately would make more sense.

@Ard3:

Yeah. And uppgrading them looks really costly. 3 is default on all drones, upping that to 4(max for medium sized) costs 4000. So only for drones far away from action, since they dont (hopefully) need to be fixed/replaced regularry.

Welcome to the first complication: That 3 is the Rating of the sensors, but what is their Capacity?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Welcome to the first complication: That 3 is the Rating of the sensors, but what is their Capacity?

Does it really matter? You can upgrade them to a Maximum rating of 4. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Maybe you cannot add additional capacity to Sensors. I don't know...

[Sengir]

Does it really matter?

I want to put a camera, directional mic, laser mic, RF scanner, motion sensor, and a Geiger counter into a drone.
- Can I even fit that many sensors into one drone? There are Capacity stats for handheld or wall-mounted housings, but none (that I can find) for vehicles
- What is the new Sensor Rating of the vehicle? Does it get averaged like in 4th, can only sensors with the same rating be installed, are different sensors tracked individually,...?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I want to put a camera, directional mic, laser mic, RF scanner, motion sensor, and a Geiger counter into a drone.
- Can I even fit that many sensors into one drone? There are Capacity stats for handheld or wall-mounted housings, but none (that I can find) for vehicles
- What is the new Sensor Rating of the vehicle? Does it get averaged like in 4th, can only sensors with the same rating be installed, are different sensors tracked individually,...?

You can raise your sensor rating to a 4. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Your questions will be answered in the Aresnal/Rigger expansion book. Why would they answer that in the main book? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Ard3]

Welcome to the first complication: That 3 is the Rating of the sensors, but what is their Capacity?

p.445 says up to eight functions with no mention of capacity what so ever. Next page says if function has the same name as audio and optical devices mentioned elsewhere have their rating as capacity, but since Sensor is limited by functions that doesn't matter. Pick 8 sensors, pay price and ignore capacity then?
Makes no sense.

[Sengir]

p.445 says up to eight functions with no mention of capacity what so ever.

Which is wrong btw, the largest wall-mounted housing only has 6 capacity...

Then again, confusing sensor rules are an honored tradition of SR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Ard3]

Which is wrong btw, the largest wall-mounted housing only has 6 capacity...

Then again, confusing sensor rules are an honored tradition of SR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Housing has 6 capasity, sensor array regardless of rating takes 6 capasity to install on that housing. Capasity of sensor array itself is still not mentioned.