The Return of Black Mamba (with spoilers), or: How much communication between writers? Options

[Trismegistus]

I guess Black Mamba write some stuff in Assassin's Primer. Amazing, since she's dead as of Storm Front. Do the writers have much opportunity to communicate with each other?

How easy is it to mess up metaplot simply because the freelance team doesn't have all of the info?

[DeathStrobe]

I think the Primer was written before Stormfront, which is why the inconsistency exists. But this can be explained away a few ways, like the Dread Pirate Roberts effect, where a pupil of Black Mamba took over the mantel, or the Mark Twain effect, where her death was greatly exaggerated...by herself.

[Sendaz]

Like any comic fan will tell you, no body = not necessarily dead. Until BM herself comes out with a few more details of what actually happened during SF, we won't know for certain.

[sk8bcn]

Like any comic fan will tell you, no body = not necessarily dead. Until BM herself comes out with a few more details of what actually happened during SF, we won't know for certain.

That gimmick is WAY too old to make a good story plot IMO.

[Trismegistus]

I seriously hope that it's Deathstrobe's first point. The second point should have been clarified in text (and the closest thing to a legacy name in SR is Picador to Matador), and the third is trite.

I read on the official site that Waakshani (sp?) may have ruined another writer's attempts at a metaplot, which makes me wonder how much they reference each other. And who knows how many metaplots have been lost, given Nigel Findley's death (RIP), company changes, and the apparent earlier... Troubles.

[binarywraith]

I think the Primer was written before Stormfront, which is why the inconsistency exists. But this can be explained away a few ways, like the Dread Pirate Roberts effect, where a pupil of Black Mamba took over the mantel, or the Mark Twain effect, where her death was greatly exaggerated...by herself.

Or it could just be that as usual for Catalyst products, nobody actually edited the damn thing so it slipped through.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Or it could just be that as usual for Catalyst products, nobody actually edited the damn thing so it slipped through.

*gasp* The Horror... But not exactly an unexpected Horror. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Sendaz]

So wait, Catalyst is actually a Horror and they intentionally cause confusion through items to errata and missed cross referencing as well as suck Karma and Cash outta all the players through their tomes..... insidious. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

*evil clap*

[Bigity]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[Trismegistus]

"Catalyst" is a new Horror that appeared just before the Sixth World. It is able to place a Horror Mark on anyone who purchases a tome that it produced, feeding on the impotent rage of its victims.

[Blade]

Don't worry, they still have the backup explanation: all the errors in the books are due to Jackpoint(ers) going crazy because of the nano plague.
Or the alternate version: everything happens only in Fastjack's troubled mind.

[Backgammon]

Comment from my wife:

"Your shadowrun people are like the people that comment on Kim Kardashian on my gossip sites"

[bannockburn]

While I don't really go to gossip sites (meaning I can't fully appreciate the metaphor), I tend to agree with your wife.

However, how is that a helpful comment to post on legitimate criticism?
Black Mamba and Aufheben were taken out publicly in Storm Front, and an SR5 publication that's supposed to be in the timeline after these events has them as Jackpointers commenting on some payed murderer's pamphlet. Without even a nod to why they are back or an explanation that this is before SF.

Sure, the tone goes towards the bitter / sarcastic part of the spectrum, but the point still stands: QA fucked up ... Again.

[Backgammon]

Indeed, I completely agree with your statement.

QA/Continuity or whatever you want to call it fucked up. It's an error. From a small company whose QA process is the author or the two guys that review as much as they can but that have other duties. Especially with ebooks. Yes, it's an error. Everyone does their best to make sure that doesn't happen. Things slip by and will continue to do so.

Bitter/sarcastic comments -> about as intelligent and helpful as Kim Kardashian comments and reflect far more on the persons saying them than CGL.

By all means, point out errors. It's important. I mean that. Being immature about it is just a disservice to the poster.

[Sendaz]

Or we can flip this around, maybe the writer had access to some of the behind the scenes stuff of other upcoming 'main' books where the matter of BM or BM 2.0 is already addressed and this whole matter would just be background stuff, it is just that said main books have not come out yet.

Remember it is not as clear cut as the older SR books with timestamps on the comments. All we can use as any sort of gauge is the comments and try to place them by their relevance, hence the confusion sometimes as there can be gaps in time. The PDF download stuff can come out at a far different pace than the mainline stuff so it is not surprising if some of the lite material may jump the gun a bit.

Speaking of which, where is CanRay and our NetCat Shipping Story? *hint* *hint*

[binarywraith]

Bitter/sarcastic comments -> about as intelligent and helpful as Kim Kardashian comments and reflect far more on the persons saying them than CGL.

By all means, point out errors. It's important. I mean that. Being immature about it is just a disservice to the poster.

Have you looked at the last half-dozen releases? A bit of bitterness is rather justified when these problems keep happening in every release Catalyst puts out.

[DeathStrobe]

Have you looked at the last half-dozen releases? A bit of bitterness is rather justified when these problems keep happening in every release Catalyst puts out.

I don't know man. Have you ever taken a look at other media? Canon is a huge problem in comic books, TV shows, video games, and even other RPG series. I think your standards might be slightly unrealistic to blame CGL for not being able to keep track of every little detail in their universe. Also there are a lot of ways that, in this case, for Black Mamba to still be around in the SR universe, so this isn't exactly breaking canon yet.

[Sengir]

Comment from my wife:

"Your shadowrun people are like the people that comment on Kim Kardashian on my gossip sites"

But the people we are discussing about had a lot less surgery done than the average celebrity (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[binarywraith]

I don't know man. Have you ever taken a look at other media? Canon is a huge problem in comic books, TV shows, video games, and even other RPG series. I think your standards might be slightly unrealistic to blame CGL for not being able to keep track of every little detail in their universe. Also there are a lot of ways that, in this case, for Black Mamba to still be around in the SR universe, so this isn't exactly breaking canon yet.

It's not even nit-picking. It's major editorial mistakes, like say Bogota having a seaport, or the editorial cluster-frag that is SR5 just now.

[Trismegistus]

Eh, I was more interested in how much the various writers discuss plots, so SNAFUs are kept to a minimum.

Editorial issues are definitely a thing, but I think there are enough threads 'round here that point them out in all of their glorious detail.

[Tzeentch]

Aufheben's death hasn't been established. He's MIA as of Storm Front (p. 30).

Black Mamba is pretty much confirmed dead in Storm Front (p. 31).

[Grinder]

Remember it is not as clear cut as the older SR books with timestamps on the comments.

For good reasons.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[Jaid]

or, this *could* just be an older document from before the deaths (or presumed deaths) of those people. just because it's published now doesn't mean it all had to happen after those events. is there anything in the book that pins it down as happening after the events of storm front?

[tasti man LH]

Was it established that Fastjack and everyone else got struck by the Sibyll virus happened before or after the end of the AzAm War?

If before, this would make sense since Bull and Glitch are opening the doc instead of 'Jack. If the latter.....yeeeah, this is iffy...

[bannockburn]

Don't get me wrong.
Both the older document and the two runners surviving are valid theories.
However, none of these theories are supported by anything in the pdf (afair).
This strongly suggests that the pdf was written parallel to Storm Front, which isn't a big deal either.

Not acknowledging it is the issue. There is no need for apologetics on behalf of the fans, nor is there a need for snark.
But people tend to have coping mechanisms for their disappointments, and as such we get both.

In the end, it's a five dollar product, which isn't a large production value. In general, those small pdfs so far haven't had big problems either (a few examples still exist, though).
Accept it, and move on. Buy it or leave it.

For me it was interesting for fluff and timeline reasons and on one of those I was disappointed. Which isn't a big issue either, because my timeline significantly differs from the officiial one.