A Time of War, Battletech's fourth edition. Options

[Sixgun_Sage]

So a friend of mine is talking about potentially running a game with A Time of War, the fourth edition of the well loved battletech rpg, and I was wondering what the general consensus is on here as a few specific questions. How backwards compatible the system is? Can third edition mech stats be quickly ported over? How does combat run? Is the fluff consistent with itself as well as the crunch or are there the glaring conflicts rpg fans have become so used to?

[Tanegar]

This is relevant to my interests. I haven't played A Time of War (or any other BattleTech RPG, for that matter), but I am deeply interested in hearing about it.

[Sixgun_Sage]

I downloaded and read the core book and it is actually a pretty fun looking system. The skill resolution mechanic is a little wonky though, 2d6 + skill + attribute modifier + situational modifiers. It's not exactly flawed.... it's just aesthetically unpleasing. There's also the experience system which reminds me of the Elder Scrolls games. Over time you can assign experience to skills or attributes to increase them, in a way it mirrors reality quite well and it doesn't get in the way of anything, but it still seems strange. The most jarring thing is the letter code system that all equipment uses. Nothing exactly tripped me up but I did pull a confused dog face a couple of times trying to figure out why they made some of the choices they did. It looks like it would work smoothly, but I haven't actually gotten a chance to play it so my judgement is at best tentative.

[CanRay]

One of my group is trying the GM's hat (again), so we'll see what happens when I play.

I think the Mech I'm getting is slightly broken, however...

[Stahlseele]

that depends entirely on what toys are available.
combining pulse lasers with targeting computers is frowned upon for the -3 to hitting things . .
while piloting a Hunchback 4P or 5P is perfectly OK with most people that don't realize what it means.

[CanRay]

while piloting a Hunchback 4P or 5P is perfectly OK with most people that don't realize what it means.

It means heat management and never having to worry about ammo.

Well, the Mech I got (A Falconer Heavy Mech) has four medium lasers, a PPC, a Gauss Rifle, and Jump Jets. Yes, Jump Jets in a Heavy.

[Sixgun_Sage]

I haven't even gotten around to seriously working on mech design but have always been a fan of the Trebuchet 7M, speed, agility and firepower are what I look for in a walking pimp-mobile.

[Stahlseele]

It means heat management and never having to worry about ammo.

Well, the Mech I got (A Falconer Heavy Mech) has four medium lasers, a PPC, a Gauss Rifle, and Jump Jets. Yes, Jump Jets in a Heavy.

The Falconer is . . Mediocre at best . .
There are 100t Mechs with IMPROVED JUMPJETS.

And no, in the 4P Heat-Management means you don't fire ONE of the dozend lasers you own ^^

[CanRay]

OK, not as bad as I thought then. I know the lack of a missile system is going to be telling, but that is what the rest of the Lance is for, neh?

[Stahlseele]

Missles are Sub-Par-Weapons for the most part anyway <.<
You are mostly independent of Ammo in that Mech, which is good.
You will begin to overheat when the Gauss Ammo is empty i think.
Which is bad. You have Jumpjets, so you can still move when overheated.
Which is good. And remember one thing: IF THE GAUSS AMMO IS EMPTY?
YOU SHUT DOWN THAT GAUSS RIFLE!
There is simply NO POINT in having it active without ammo to shoot it.
A shut down Gauss-Rifle will NOT explode on Critical hit.
An active Gauss-Rifle WILL Explode for 20 Points of automatic damage.
And one or maybe even two automatic Pilot-Hits, i am not sure about that.

[Tanegar]

Missles are Sub-Par-Weapons for the most part anyway <.<
You are mostly independent of Ammo in that Mech, which is good.
You will begin to overheat when the Gauss Ammo is empty i think.
Which is bad. You have Jumpjets, so you can still move when overheated.
Which is good. And remember one thing: IF THE GAUSS AMMO IS EMPTY?
YOU SHUT DOWN THAT GAUSS RIFLE!
There is simply NO POINT in having it active without ammo to shoot it.
A shut down Gauss-Rifle will NOT explode on Critical hit.
An active Gauss-Rifle WILL Explode for 20 Points of automatic damage.
And one or maybe even two automatic Pilot-Hits, i am not sure about that.

Two points of damage to the pilot, per Total Warfare, p. 41. I'm gonna call shenanigans on missiles being subpar, though.

[Critias]

Call my cynical, but decades of Battletech experience tell me that the old "energy vs. ballistic vs. missiles" debate isn't the sort of thing that's like to be solved any time soon. You've got better luck asking gunbunnies to argue .45 vs. 9mm and expect a reasonable resolution, or bringing about a lasting peace in the Middle East.

[Tanegar]

I like a mix of weapons, personally. Although, I have to admit I am partial to the AC/10 and variants.

Also, .45 long Colt is the best cartridge. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT.

[Stahlseele]

it's just that missles are VERY niche weapons.
streak SRM can, when boated, give good ammounts of damage, true . .
but even if you fire several bays full of SRM at a target that has suffered some hits already you are pretty unlikely to actually breach the armor and do some critical damage.
non streak? yeah, good luck hitting with more than 75% of your ammo consistently.
same with other scatter weapons like LB-X ACs. And they, at least, get a -1 to the to hit TN for the initial shot, although not for how many pellets will actually hit.
And then there is the explodey ammo bit, which is a very unfortunate thing that can and will happen at random. even without enemy fire, if you overheat.
big guns like a gauss-rifle will pierce the armor in anything that has less than 20 points of armor in the hit location. which is most anything you will aim it at, really.

[Tanegar]

Every weapon has its niche. I find missiles make an excellent supplementary weapon system when paired with a nice high-caliber autocannon, and are also good for fire support. Pepper the bastards with LRMs as they close in, then follow up a solid autocannon hit with a flight of SRMs. Sure, you could use lasers as a secondary, but that creates its own problem.

[Stahlseele]

Medium Lasers are king.
Small Lasers and Large Lasers come second.
Then come the ER and Pulse Variants.
Then the other Laser Variants.
Then come PPC
Then come Gauss
Then come AC
Then come Missles

Close Combat Attacks are kinda to the left of that List.

[Tanegar]

You put pulse lasers below standard? -2 to hit is way too nice for that, IMO. I don't rate PPCs that highly, either; their high heat puts them firmly in the Awesome But Impractical category. A good autocannon is about the best primary weapon you can have, especially AC/5s and AC/10s. Good damage, low heat means you can fire them every turn, and they carry enough ammo that you're not terrified of missing. Back them up with a few medium lasers, or MPLs if you can get them, and you're golden.

[Stahlseele]

Normal Medium Lasers and Small Lasers produce more Damage than heat, so yeah, they are rated higher than the Pulse and ER Variants in my eyes.
Also cheaper to manufacture, lighter and smaller in both tonnage and crit space usually.
PPC get ranked in the middle because of high heat and minimum reach on most models.
AC get ranked low because of high ammounts of very volatile ammo, shit for reach on the 20 class and shit damage and minimum reach on the 2 and 5 class. The only in my eyes viable AC is the Ultra 10 and maybe the LB-X10.

[Tanegar]

I really think you overestimate the danger of ammo explosions. I've played fifty or sixty games of BattleTech, and I can't remember ever seeing one. Yeah, they can be devastating, but they're just not that common.

[Stahlseele]

I really think you overestimate the danger of ammo explosions. I've played fifty or sixty games of BattleTech, and I can't remember ever seeing one. Yeah, they can be devastating, but they're just not that common.

That, my friend, depends ENTIRELY on how lucky you are . .
I rolled 20 1's twice in a row in a shadowrun game once -.-
For ME, Risk-Reduction ALWAYS factos into these things.
If it means i have a bit less Fire-Power? I'm fine with that.
At least it won't be me blowing myself up like this . .

[Tanegar]

Wait, what? Are you saying that you rolled 20d6, twice in a row, and every single die in both rolls came up 1? Mein freund, that is when you donate those dice to charity and buy a whole new batch. And also generate a new character, because a glitch that severe means that Cthulhu himself appears and eats you.

[CanRay]

Meant a Highway Snowplow snuck up on a character in my campaign. The player didn't live that one down for years!

[Stahlseele]

i dug a hole in the yard, threw some paper, sticks and the dice wrapped in paper into it, poured some gasoline over it and lit the whole thing on fire and let it burn untill the dice were no more than a bit of molten slag.
in game it meant that my character died, because those were damage resistance rolls and i already used karma for a reroll after the first attempt -.-

but even with new dice, i still manage to roll well below average usually. and it swings both ways, in a game like GURPS where rolling low is the target, i seldomly roll below 4 . .

[Tanegar]

In that case, sir, I salute your noble sacrifice in being a bad-luck sink. Take comfort in the notion that we all roll better because of you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Starmage21]

My only problem with the game was that battle armor in personal combat is in no way as protective as it should be. You will die inside that suit before the suit is ever damaged to the point of non-operation. This is counter-intuitive, compared to the way it plays out on the Battletech table! I dunno if it was an oversight or is that way by design.