Gun H(e)aven 3, Just in time for Christmas!!! Options

[CanRay]

The latest Gun Haven Heaven is here!

Perfect for that person on your list that loves them their gear porn! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Has SR4A and SR5 stats, too!!!

[Sengir]

Not every operator in the shadows is a freelancer. [Tag: Coyotes]

You forgot to mention that Coyotes is also out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Although TBH the most exiting thing about that announcement was the announcement of "London Falling" in the preview for it. Popular uprising in London sure sounds interesting

> Sometimes the shadows clear enough to allow you to see the drek you’re standing in. [Tag: Sioux Nation: Shadows in Focus]

Moar Injuns!

A book with more weapons and combat options called Run & Gun will be released shortly after this book

Now that is a Christmas gift I am looking forward to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Looking into the preview text itself: Home defense (for home owners, because the middle class is totally a large target group), greens forcing regulations against lead rounds upon poor shooters...nothing out of the ordinary, just the standard political undertones of SR nowadays...

[DWC]

Neat book. Shame that the Rain Forest Carbine is brutally overpowered.

[CanRay]

Neat book. Shame that the Rain Forest Carbine is brutally overpowered.

Small capacity, semi-auto only, has a muzzle flare that the blind can see and the deaf can hear... Assault Cannon for the tiny crowd, perhaps?

[DWC]

It's pretty much the Shadowrun version of the 300 Blackout or the Beowulf rifles.

[Larsine]

How many pages, and how many new guns?

[Larsine]

You forgot to mention that Coyotes is also out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Although TBH the most exiting thing about that announcement was the announcement of "London Falling" in the preview for it. Popular uprising in London sure sounds interesting

London Calling was already announced back in 2012, when it was just a series of CMPs.

Now it looks like they will be published as a single book including CMP 2012-01: Swing Vote, CMP 2012-02: Five Minutes to Midnight, CMP 2012-03: Silicon Slick, and CMP 2012-04: Depth Charge.

[Sengir]

London Calling was already announced back in 2012, when it was just a series of CMPs.

Admittedly never paid much attention to Missions

[CanRay]

How many pages, and how many new guns?

37 pages, 33 guns, 2 large tables.

[Samoth]

That RF Carbine is so stupidly out of sync with the rest of the guns available in SR5 I have to wonder how the person who wrote it (canray?) came up with the stats. It is better and cheaper than the sniper rifles, except for range. Why.

[X-Kalibur]

The latest Gun Haven Heaven is here!

Perfect for that person on your list that loves them their gear porn! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Has SR4A and SR5 stats, too!!!

Just in time for my birthday even!

[CanRay]

That RF Carbine is so stupidly out of sync with the rest of the guns available in SR5 I have to wonder how the person who wrote it (canray?) came up with the stats. It is better and cheaper than the sniper rifles, except for range. Why.

I proofed the book. I didn't write it. I haven't done a gear porn book yet. (This last item surprises me.).

However, during my mid-day nap, I had an image in my head of what the hell this thing does, and realized... "What if it was using an HMG Round?"

So, with a Shadowrun-tech .50 BMG or a 12.7X108mm Caseless equivalent, what do you folks think?

Aside from, "WHERE DID MY SHOULDER GO??? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, I'M GUSHING BLOOD EVERYWHERE!!!"

[X-Kalibur]

There seems to be a huge disconnect from the SR4 to SR5 stats on it. Also feels like it was possibly intended to have "high powered chambering".

<edit> at 8P for an assault rifle, it is 2P above the rest. This seems, to me, indicative of wanting to use HP chambering but maybe not inccuring the retarded -2 for recoil even on (arguably, rules interpretation) a single shot.

[DWC]

I proofed the book. I didn't write it. I haven't done a gear porn book yet. (This last item surprises me.).

However, during my mid-day nap, I had an image in my head of what the hell this thing does, and realized... "What if it was using an HMG Round?"

So, with a Shadowrun-tech .50 BMG or a 12.7X108mm Caseless equivalent, what do you folks think?

Aside from, "WHERE DID MY SHOULDER GO??? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, I'M GUSHING BLOOD EVERYWHERE!!!"

Except that it fires standard assault rifle ammunition. If the errata states that it fires sniper rifle ammunition and uses SMG ranges, or heavy pistol ranges, and recoils like a heavy weapon, then the problem is sorted.

[Samoth]

I proofed the book. I didn't write it. I haven't done a gear porn book yet. (This last item surprises me.).

However, during my mid-day nap, I had an image in my head of what the hell this thing does, and realized... "What if it was using an HMG Round?"

So, with a Shadowrun-tech .50 BMG or a 12.7X108mm Caseless equivalent, what do you folks think?

Aside from, "WHERE DID MY SHOULDER GO??? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, I'M GUSHING BLOOD EVERYWHERE!!!"

You proofread this book and the OP gun to end all OP guns didn't jump out of the page at you?

Imagine this with a BF or FA mod if the arsenal book is ever released. At 5R availability you don't even have to justify owning one for any character you run.

[CanRay]

You proofread this book and the OP gun to end all OP guns didn't jump out of the page at you?

Considering everything else I was focusing on that gets far more comments and criticisms in reviews.

Yes.

But one OP item is not going to be The End Of Shadowrun Forever, right?

[X-Kalibur]

Isn't it the line devs responsibility to catch something like that anyway? A proofer is just looking for errors, but as written it doesn't necessarily contain an error, per se.

[Samoth]

Considering everything else I was focusing on that gets far more comments and criticisms in reviews.

Yes.

But one OP item is not going to be The End Of Shadowrun Forever, right?

Seriously? You're going to release lazy shit instead of a balanced product? Don't pass the blame, if you were supposed to check this over and didn't bother why did it get released?

[CanRay]

Seriously? You're going to release lazy shit instead of a balanced product? Don't pass the blame, if you were supposed to check this over and didn't bother why did it get released?

Again, I did not write this. X-Kalibur is pretty accurate. I was looking for grammar, spelling, and punctuation, nothing more.

Now please stop trying to pin this on me personally, I'm starting to consider these attacks personal, which is against the ToS of Dumpshock.

I had, previously, been quite proud of the fact that I was hopefully helping to put out a quality product for everyone.

[DMiller]

Again, I did not write this. X-Kalibur is pretty accurate. I was looking for grammar, spelling, and punctuation, nothing more.

Now please stop trying to pin this on me personally, I'm starting to consider these attacks personal, which is against the ToS of Dumpshock.

I had, previously, been quite proud of the fact that I was hopefully helping to put out a quality product for everyone.

Don't let a few malcontents get ya down. You do well as both a writer and a proofer. It's not the job of a proofer to "fix" broken data, only to correct bad spelling and grammer. (I could use a proofer in real life (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

[Samoth]

I assure you it wasn't meant as a personal attack, but an indictment of the overall product quality Catalyst is expecting us to pay money for.

It's like, this gun is an obvious no-brainer, everyone has it kind of item. At that point why even bother using any other guns? That has two effects: 1. everyone uses it and nothing else (opposition included) and/or 2. it is GM banned, in which case why did I pay real life money for something I can't use? Balance is important.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I assure you it wasn't meant as a personal attack, but an indictment of the overall product quality Catalyst is expecting us to pay money for.

It's like, this gun is an obvious no-brainer, everyone has it kind of item. At that point why even bother using any other guns? That has two effects: 1. everyone uses it and nothing else (opposition included) and/or 2. it is GM banned, in which case why did I pay real life money for something I can't use? Balance is important.

In Game, None of my characters have never used the Ares Alpha. SO no, an Uber Gun is not a no-brainer, nor is it a foregone conclusion. *shrug*
In comparison (IRL), do you consider a .454 Casull to be the equivalent of a .45 Long Colt or .45 ACP? I don't. And yet, functionally, the Casull is a better weapon. Never cared to own one, personally. Same goes for the Barrett 50 BMG vs. a Marine Corps Sniper Rifle (M40). I would choose the M40 every time, even thought the Barrett is a functionally superior gun. That being said... the Barrett is badass. But I would never want one.

But yes, Balance is a consideration, to be sure.

[Samoth]

In Game, None of my characters have never used the Ares Alpha. SO no, an Uber Gun is not a no-brainer, nor is it a foregone conclusion. *shrug*
In comparison (IRL), do you consider a .454 Casull to be the equivalent of a .45 Long Colt or .45 ACP? I don't. And yet, functionally, the Casull is a better weapon. Never cared to own one, personally. Same goes for the Barrett 50 BMG vs. a Marine Corps Sniper Rifle (M40). I would choose the M40 every time, even thought the Barrett is a functionally superior gun. That being said... the Barrett is badass. But I would never want one.

But yes, Balance is a consideration, to be sure.

Tell me this is balanced against the "best" AR in the main book. I don't care what you have or have not used, this is a pure numbers thing. Don't even bother with real life ammo comparisons because Shadowrun is abstracted - however I'm not sure how an assault rifle like this could do a full 5 points more damage than the worst gun in the category (Colt M23). Something like that may need to be referenced in the description, but it isn't, there are only vague allusions to a "higher powered round" even though by the book all assault rifles use the same ammo and this gun doesn't suffer any additional recoil penalties.

Ultimax Rain Forest Carbine (SR5)
Acc 7, Dam 14P, AP -4, Mode SA, RC (1), Ammo 18©, Avail 5R, Cost 2,800
Standard Upgrades/Accessories: Imaging Scope (w/ flare compensation, image link, low-light vision), Retractable Stock

Ares Alpha
Acc 5(7), Dam 11P, AP -2. Mode SA/BF/FA, RC 2, Ammo 42©, Avail 11F, 2,650
Standard Upgrades/Accessories: underbarrel grenade launcher, integrated smartlink

If it's not OK to post this gun stat, mods please feel free to edit it out. I listed it for comparison's sake.

Now, the URFC is on par with SNIPER RIFLES for damage and AP (best sniper is the Ranger Arms at 14P -5AP, but also 10x the cos, illegal, and not available at character generation), and is as available as a dirt common Ares Predator and only marginally more expensive than an Alpha which is illegal to carry. Again, it doesn't matter what you personally use in the game, the fact that this gun is 1. extremely overpowered 2. extremely common 3. extremely cheap and 4. upgradeable to be even BETTER once mod rules exist is absolutely laughable. The only downside to this is it only fires in SA and the magazine is small, but again, those will surely be options that can be changed with mod rules so who cares?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Tell me this is balanced against the "best" AR in the main book. I don't care what you have or have not used, this is a pure numbers thing. Don't even bother with real life ammo comparisons because Shadowrun is abstracted - however I'm not sure how an assault rifle like this could do a full 5 points more damage than the worst gun in the category (Colt M23). Something like that may need to be referenced in the description, but it isn't, there are only vague allusions to a "higher powered round" even though by the book all assault rifles use the same ammo and this gun doesn't suffer any additional recoil penalties.

Ultimax Rain Forest Carbine (SR5)
Acc 7, Dam 14P, AP -4, Mode SA, RC (1), Ammo 18©, Avail 5R, Cost 2,800
Standard Upgrades/Accessories: Imaging Scope (w/ flare compensation, image link, low-light vision), Retractable Stock

Ares Alpha
Acc 5(7), Dam 11P, AP -2. Mode SA/BF/FA, RC 2, Ammo 42©, Avail 11F, 2,650
Standard Upgrades/Accessories: underbarrel grenade launcher, integrated smartlink

If it's not OK to post this gun stat, mods please feel free to edit it out. I listed it for comparison's sake.

Now, the URFC is on par with SNIPER RIFLES for damage and AP (best sniper is the Ranger Arms at 14P -5AP, but also 10x the cos, illegal, and not available at character generation), and is as available as a dirt common Ares Predator and only marginally more expensive than an Alpha which is illegal to carry. Again, it doesn't matter what you personally use in the game, the fact that this gun is 1. extremely overpowered 2. extremely common 3. extremely cheap and 4. upgradeable to be even BETTER once mod rules exist is absolutely laughable. The only downside to this is it only fires in SA and the magazine is small, but again, those will surely be options that can be changed with mod rules so who cares?

My point was not to indicate that the stats were comparable. My point was to point out that your statement that everyone would use it because the stats were optimal were not accurate.

[Samoth]

Again, it's strictly a numbers thing. If it is so common that gangers can get it just as easily as a Predator, and it is fully legal, it would realistically be the most used long gun on the market. Statistically it is so much better than any alternative there is no reasonable excuse to not use it except for role play reasons or "I want to use something else" reasons which are both irrelevant when comparing it to other guns in the category. That is a serious balance issue.