Gun H(e)aven 3, Just in time for Christmas!!! Options

[X-Kalibur]

Again, it's strictly a numbers thing. If it is so common that gangers can get it just as easily as a Predator, and it is fully legal, it would realistically be the most used long gun on the market. Statistically it is so much better than any alternative there is no reasonable excuse to not use it except for role play reasons or "I want to use something else" reasons which are both irrelevant when comparing it to other guns in the category. That is a serious balance issue.

I'm sure if it shows up in Missions as a problem you'll see it get some sort of fixing. In the mean time... remember the first rule of table top gaming? Have fun. If the inclusion of this gun isn't fun, don't use it. Problem solved.

[The Overlord]

Its a short cheap PDF/booklet that has more ideas and some nice art, and thats enough for me. Sure a gun or two is OP, but you know how i'd fix it? Homerule: It doesn't exist! Boom problem solved. OR just rule that it has a reduced accuracy of 5 or cant receive smartgun mod do to design issues. House rules are your friend. But from a purely mechanics stand point I totally agree that the URFC is far too powerful even with its reduce mag size and it makes me wonder if they were looking at the guns in the Corebook when they were writing these up. If they weren't, than they should take a second look and patch it.
Then again, who knows what will be in the Run&Gun book. Only time will tell.

[binarywraith]

I proofed the book. I didn't write it. I haven't done a gear porn book yet. (This last item surprises me.).

However, during my mid-day nap, I had an image in my head of what the hell this thing does, and realized... "What if it was using an HMG Round?"

So, with a Shadowrun-tech .50 BMG or a 12.7X108mm Caseless equivalent, what do you folks think?

Aside from, "WHERE DID MY SHOULDER GO??? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, I'M GUSHING BLOOD EVERYWHERE!!!"

It's a carbine. A HMG round isn't going to do shit other than make the muzzle flash brighter, because they need a longer barrel to get the most advantage out of the greater amount of propellant behind them.

On the other hand, running an HMG round through a carbine length barrel means it'll probably throw fireballs like the Mosin-Nagant m44 does!

[Fatum]

Assassin's Primer, where the SVD is listed with lower damage than sporting rifles, tells us looking at the stats in the Core is optional for splat writers. That's CGL editing, take it or leave it.

Oh, and proofreaders have nothing to do with it. Why give them drek, when even non-spelling grammar corrections they offer don't always make it through?

[FuelDrop]

What is this editing of which you speak, and more importantly does it cost money?

[FuelDrop]

As to the the URFC, I don't think it's quite the no-brainer that people are saying. The Ares Alpha still outdoes it in the fields of rate of fire, innate recoil compensation and the underbarrel grenade launcher, while as a light assault cannon the battle rifle in the core book is comparable (Better endurance/ROF if memory serves).

My main problems with it is the very high accuracy (Too high for an assault rifle before aids) and low availability (5R? Really? This thing is going to be the go-to assault cannon for most street sams, since it uses automatics skill and packs a lot of punch), though dropping its other stats a bit couldn't hurt.

EDIT: Why does a carbine come with a scope as stock? Really minor point here, but as I understand it carbines have always been designed for mobility rather than long range. Also, since it has a reduced barrel length compared to a full rifle (Literally the definition of Carbine. Literally here used with its old meaning, not the new meaning of figurative.), why is it more powerful than many of the full rifles when the bullets have less room to accelerate in the barrel? You know what would be a pretty cool explanation? Self-propelled rounds that are fired normally then continue to accelerate after launch. Give it an integrated smartgun system and 'smart rounds' that are not only self-propelled but also self-guided and explosive by default and a lot of the logical problems are at least given a nod, while at the same time giving the downsides of expensive unique ammunition and no flexibility in ammunition loadout, plus I'm pretty sure rocket propelled rounds can't be effectively silenced.

[FuelDrop]

Huh, well well well (Three holes in the ground).

It turns out that the URFC has been handed out to the local constabulary. In other words, cops in the Sumatran Alliance are carrying sawn-off assault cannons as their main weapon.

Guess where I am not going to be running in the foreseeable future?

[Samoth]

Huh, well well well (Three holes in the ground).

It turns out that the URFC has been handed out to the local constabulary. In other words, cops in the Sumatran Alliance are carrying sawn-off assault cannons as their main weapon.

Guess where I am not going to be running in the foreseeable future?

You might want to retire since the gun is 5R availability and according to the fluff is easily available in retail stores and online.

[FuelDrop]

You might want to retire since the gun is 5R availability and according to the fluff is easily available in retail stores and online.

At least it's too expensive to find its way into the hands of most gangers and homeowners.

[FuelDrop]

I am disappointed at the lack of an SMG with an underbarrel shotgun for breaching.

[Samoth]

At least it's too expensive to find its way into the hands of most gangers and homeowners.

I doubt that, since the Ares Alpha is about the same cost and is listed as one of the most common longarms on the streets.

I mean, you can buy this gun with E priority and you need zero justification to own one since it's legal with a permit. This gun is just ridiculous - load it with Explosive ammo and it is only marginally worse than the Krime Cannon!

[bannockburn]

Oh, and proofreaders have nothing to do with it. Why give them drek, when even non-spelling grammar corrections they offer don't always make it through?

For me? Because of Kriegfaust (or Kreigfaust, in the tables).
Seriously, don't use Marveldscherman, please. Just ask someone instead of slapping together two English words and putting them into Google translate.

Other than that: Stop beating on CanRay. That's Bull's job. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Edit: Oh, and to say something useful, after all.
I generally liked the amount of artwork and I think, I have a new favorite machine pistol with the Cavalier Evanator. I am by no means a gun porn afficionado, but damn, that thing looks sexy.
Also, I'm all for dual-statted splatbooks. Thumbs up from me, even if it isn't perfect.

But please, stop with the Krime puns. They hurt my teeth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[CanRay]

Other than that: Stop beating on CanRay. That's Bull's job. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Thank you. This is not a good time of year to be ganging up on me.

But please, stop with the Krime puns. They hurt my teeth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Wish we could, but that is how the company marketing works. If some Shadowrunners took out the current owners and set themselves up as the new Board, then something might be able to change.

'Course, Shadowrunners would probably insist that quality increase dramatically, which would rise up costs something fierce.

[bannockburn]

'Course, Shadowrunners would probably insist that quality increase dramatically, which would rise up costs something fierce.

You mean like with the Krime Bomb's markup of almost 800% between SR4 and SR5 stats? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
The prices seem really weird at times.
Good thing, I only need one of the statblocks ^^

[Samoth]

Thank you. This is not a good time of year to be ganging up on me.Wish we could, but that is how the company marketing works. If some Shadowrunners took out the current owners and set themselves up as the new Board, then something might be able to change.

'Course, Shadowrunners would probably insist that quality increase dramatically, which would rise up costs something fierce.

Nobody is ganging up on you, please stop taking it personally. We're critiquing an obviously bad design decision that you may or may not have had anything to do with.

[Fatum]

Nobody is ganging up on you, please stop taking it personally. We're critiquing an obviously bad design decision that you may or may not have had anything to do with.

Seriously? You're going to release lazy shit instead of a balanced product? Don't pass the blame, if you were supposed to check this over and didn't bother why did it get released?

Back to the book momentarily.
I really liked the art, I wish it was always this good.
Why was Parazoology so horribly illustrated, when most critters in it already had pictures drawn for them for PAoNA and PAoE?

[X-Kalibur]

Because they know if they give us terrible artwork with our gun porn that people will burn.

[Samoth]

That's a valid criticism (guy who proofs book doesn't catch obvious flaws). Not ganging up, nothing personal.

[CanRay]

Because they know if they give us terrible artwork with our gun porn that people will burn.

I'll be the one holding the matches if that happens again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

So, how about the "Western" feel coming back to Shadowrun? I, for one, am enjoying the new options there. Gives some real character to some characters, neh?

[DrZaius]

That's a valid criticism (guy who proofs book doesn't catch obvious flaws). Not ganging up, nothing personal.

Multiple people have referred to your posts as both personal attacks and unnecessarily severe. Not for nothing, but I personally would take that as a data point to consider reviewing my actions. If you don't like the book don't buy it. After that, harping on this one point endlessly seems uncouth.

-DrZ

[bannockburn]

So, how about the "Western" feel coming back to Shadowrun? I, for one, am enjoying the new options there. Gives some real character to some characters, neh?

Not a fan, sorry.
But it doesn't detract from the setting, so why not. Some people will probably enjoy it. For me, it's just more flavor available.

[X-Kalibur]

I'll be the one holding the matches if that happens again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

So, how about the "Western" feel coming back to Shadowrun? I, for one, am enjoying the new options there. Gives some real character to some characters, neh?

I was happy to see the M1 Garand.

[Samoth]

Multiple people have referred to your posts as both personal attacks and unnecessarily severe. Not for nothing, but I personally would take that as a data point to consider reviewing my actions. If you don't like the book don't buy it. After that, harping on this one point endlessly seems uncouth.

-DrZ

Canray admitted to not giving this the attention he should have in proofing. Pardon me for expressing concern that a product Catalyst expects us to pay money for isn't edited well after the mess we got with SR5's core rules and no eratta in sight (and there would surely never be an eratta for this PDF to correct the stats on an obviously broken piece of equipment). It would have taken less than a minute to flip through the core rules and say "these stats don't line up with ARs at all" and ask the writer for a correction/explanation. If he didn't catch it someone else should have before final release.

In this end this is an optional splat book but it doesn't make me want to buy any more PDFs if oversights like this get through so easily. Just my opinion, no need to pile on me either for expressing it.

[Fatum]

That's a valid criticism (guy who proofs book doesn't catch obvious flaws). Not ganging up, nothing personal.

I believe we've already told you numerous times that proofreaders do not edit books. They're basically a glorified spellchecker, even grammar corrections not always passing through, if their reports are to be believed.

Pardon me for expressing concern that a product Catalyst expects us to pay money for isn't edited well after the mess we got with SR5's core rules and no eratta in sight (and there would surely never be an eratta for this PDF to correct the stats on an obviously broken piece of equipment). It would have taken less than a minute to flip through the core rules and say "these stats don't line up with ARs at all" and ask the writer for a correction/explanation. If he didn't catch it someone else should have before final release.

Canray here is not the editor.
I believe I've made it pretty clear in the previous threads on the topic that I'm not ecstatic with the quality of editing ever since War! to say the least, but if you have problems with that, personally attacking an unrelated fellow isn't the way to go. Take it up with JM Hardy or someone like that, see if they give a damn: unedited books apparently sell equally well, the community is switching to the fifth edition even without the errata, and releasing multitudes of small pdfs, even if half-baked, apparently pays enough for the company to continue pursuing that policy.

[CanRay]

Not a fan, sorry.
But it doesn't detract from the setting, so why not. Some people will probably enjoy it. For me, it's just more flavor available.

Fair enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But it gives more options for what the hell you have to deal with.

Example being trying to stage an extraction at a Wild West Reenactment Society meeting. Where everyone is armed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I was happy to see the M1 Garand.

Yeah, that old warhorse made me smile too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)